Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

Generally a bloke 10 years senior to a young girl chasing her would be seen as likely the dodgy one...

I use them because they measure the right amount of cat biscuits.

It really doesn’t sound anything like this. He sounds perfectly happy free from the judgment of his over bearing mother.

Some harsh responses on this thread. I'd have shared your concerns, though really, what did you think would be the response when you voiced them?

A very difficult situation to pull back. In your position I would start by sending cards and presents for all the birthdays (and Christmas); including to your DIL, never ever expressing anything other than positivity towards/about the DIL ever again, and at some point, apologising unreservedly to your DS for your previous comments about his wife and expressing your sorrow and regret that this has led to the schism between you. Take full responsibility for having done the wrong thing. Life is short and precious. Don't get caught up in ideas of "being right".

Never in mummies eyes. Her perfect chap is a right catch got all the ladies dropping at his feet after his cash obv.

Agreed.

There is a pile on and that is typical of mumsnet. You are his parents so any concern for him clearly comes from a good place. There is a big difference in maturity of someone aged 20 compared to 30. I just wouldn't have questioned her motives for marrying and having children with him before you actually met her. It sounds like that is what you have done and your son has shared it with her. Of course you have a right to be concerned that your grandchildren are being taken to a country at active war but ultimately there isn't a lot you can do. Instead of trying to engineer a relationship with your grandchildren who are being held at arms length to you I would focus your energy on your own child. Your relationship with him isn't particularly good. I'd work on that instead. You are laying a lot of blame on your dil but your son could facilitate his children to have a relationship with you if he wanted to.

My mother does that with them! I’m afraid to admit I don’t reuse teabags or I could have justified my stash! We tried them as receptacles for painting water but it needed changing too often as they are shallow.

I'm not sure why people on here are being so harsh on you. I was surprised to read quite so many stinging comments on the first page. This is clearly a story with two sides and you are entitled to feel put out.

I'm sorry that you don't have the relationship you want with you ds or dg. Families often have tricky relationships that need navigating. I hope that you are able to work things out in the future - remember you can only control your side of things so start with that - but for now you may need to accept things as they are.

Good luck op x

Agree

You may have apologised when you were put back in your box but the comment about her being a gold digger is extremely hurtful and insulting. I’m not sure I’d trust your apology and would be staying away from you.
As for you not seeing your grandchildren, that’s a conversation to be had with your son.

Oh dear, OP. This reminds me of the psychologist who publishes a site about estrangement in families - her take is that grandparents often come in saying they dont know why their child/grandchildren are estranged but she learns very quickly exactly why. It is not that the grandparents/parents dont know WHY it happened - they just dont accept responsibility or take the reasons seriously. Even your post about everyone coming over for dinner on Wednesday makes me wonder if you are overbearing and people go along to avoid a blow up. Sorry, but you really need to take responsibility for this situation and try to mend bridges.

OP, a lot of the comments seem harsh, but it also seems you’ve been rather harsh to son and DIL. It is insulting to both son and DIL to question her motives for marrying him. Did you actually question what she saw in your son, other than his money? This is really insulting to both of them. I wonder if son didn’t originally move to Ukraine to get away from your harsh judgement of him. You, your husband and children probably weren’t invited to the wedding because your son didn’t feel you were supportive of him. You basically told him that a pretty young woman could only choose him for his money and then implied that DIL was a gold digger.

Even if you apologized, that doesn’t free you from the consequences of your actions. The first consequence was that YOUR SON didn’t believe you would be supportive of him on his wedding day. He chose not to include you. From the sounds of it, your husband and other children shared your views, so they were also excluded. Instead of realizing that this was your fault, you hold resentment against DIL.

Did you demand the once a month visits or did they offer them? Either way, they obviously don’t agree to them. When you have expressed your displeasure about them taking the kids to Ukraine, did you say anything in front of the kids? Questioning their parental decisions is bad enough, but undermining them in front of their children could be the reason they don’t want the children around you.

My recommendation is to apologize to your son about all of it. Tell him that you understand you’ve been overstepping and will stop. Ask him what, if anything, you can do to mend the relationship. Then do what he asks. Keep your opinions to yourself. If he does allow visits with his wife and children, focus on being kind and respectful to his wife and enjoying time with the children.

Sorry OP but I recognise the attitude you display in your post.

You have a problem between you and your son, and no amount of blaming his wife/their home/everything else under the sun will change that.

I'd try to rebuild the relationship with him, slowly and with extreme consideration for him and his life. Maybe start by not turning up at their house without calling ahead.

It's very rude and considering your son has felt forced to draw boundaries with you already, I have no idea how you think trying to force the issue will lead to an improved relationship. Clue: It won't. Imagine your son is a work colleague and treat him with the same respect. Might be a useful yardstick to keep a check on entitled and demanding behaviours.

Until you actually engage with considerate behaviour, you don't have a chance.

It is now

OP seems like the kind of person who will read 17 pages of people all saying the same thing, and then lie in bed tonight wondering if the kids are his.

You will get hung drawn and quartered on here OP for criticising your dil. MNetters don’t like mil’s generally, and especially if you dare to voice an opinion. Just try to nurture a closer relationship with your ds. Try to encourage him to maybe FaceTime with your Dgc, so at least if you’re not physically present in their lives, you have some sort of connection and dialogue with them. The time your son has spent away before returning to the UK has meant your bond with him has weakened, and just needs to be re-built again. Good luck.

Interesting you're not questioning the motives of the 30 year old man dating a woman who was a teenager a year prior.

I have family members like you and honestly I can say this to them and they will always think they’re right. So I’ll say it to you, in the hopes SOMEONE actually hears this and can sort their family out.

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. You are meddlesome. And you ALWAYS think you’re right. If you have an opinion you think it’s fact. If you have an opinion, you think it’s fine for you to air it…because it’s YOUR opinion and therefore it’s deserves airing I guess? Who knows.

what I do know is that in your post you have put yourself in the victim seat at every turn.

youve mentioned her 10 years younger age in a dismissive judgemental way. you’ve said she has no respect for your family but clearly you judged this relationship from the get go.

you talk about how small their house is in a judgemental way. Either help them out financially (generously with no strings) or shut up and tell them their home is lovely (yes, believe it or not, you can tell white lies to make them feel less judged). It’s fucking hard to live now and people are seriously struggling. Not to mention people who come from a country at war!

you bleat on about how you spent 100s of pounds n the grandchildren - they’re your fucking grandchildren! You’re supposed to buy them birthday presents! a) you set your own budget and don’t have to spend that much if you can’t afford to… and b) they didn’t make you! You did it by choice yet you’re lording it over them like you deserve adoration? Strings, strings, strings. Not to mention the fact that as a couple who are struggling probably financially and no doubt emotionally and psychologically (you know, what with her country being torn to shreds and all) so frankly having your parents/in laws swanning in and spending a shit tonne of money on the kids like they’re amazing people coming to the rescue with all their money and time to shop…well let’s just say it probably doesn’t sit well. When people think they’re so amazing because they swoop in and buy your kids love it’s pretty fucking annoying and just ridiculously insensitive.

then you go on about how youuu feel about her taking the kids to a war torn country…. Ok please. Just shut up. Honestly. And I mean that in a literal way. Like be quiet about this topic. Who are you to give your opinion on this? Was your opinion asked?? Do you think they just casually went yeaaah let’s put the kids in danger? I’m sure they went back and forth and agonised over it and she’s scared. Im going to hazard a guess she wants her kids to know her family?

Whats also noteworthy is the fact you don’t talk about missing your son.You don’t talk about how desperate you are to see him. You just want access to the grandkids. How do you think this makes him feel? And how do you think she feels knowing you don’t give a shit about getting to know her, you just want to get to the kids she produced.

id confidently guess you’ve often dispproved of your son and this isn’t the first time you’ve judged him and thought your opinion should have been adhered to because you just can’t be wrong.
either that Or he’s such a wet blanket that you’re used to him being your minion and don’t like that another woman has replaced you.

people don’t cut their families off for no reason.

you have a choice. You apologise profusely and say you’ve seen the error of your ways. And then you tiptoe around to make the relationship better. And get to see your grandkids. OR you continue on thinking you’re the victim and they’re so evil and mean and cut you off from your grandkids. But then you won’t have any relationship with them. So like I said, it’s your choice.

Yes this is true oP.

But you do need to realise you aren’t really holding many cards. There is no obligation to include grandparents in a child’s life, and if the interactions threaten to bring instability, judgment and conflict onto the doorstep and into their children’s lives, most parents will shy away from it.

Look your son clearly said what the issue is and you clearly STILL disapprove of his choice and her actions. And oh boy, it is very easy to make a foreigner feel small by oh so typical British passive aggressive “innocent” comments

But also the British middle class relationships with in laws are INCREDIBLY taxing for Eastern Europeans (who are very direct so generally hate British politeness and small talk and thank you cards, it’s all very insincere to a lot of them so it is very draining to pretend to go along with it). So I can see her breathing sigh of relief that she doesn’t have to interact with you

You seem to put the blame on your DiL - she makes a big effort to see her family, surely it's down to your son whether or not he brings the children to see you?

It’s weird but I feel a bit for you OP. I 100% don’t agree with the meddling and opinions at the start of the relationship. I think though it’s not unreasonable to want a relationship. I feel a honest discussion with DS and your DIL, where you apologise and don’t act defensively may start a process of healing.

Ya think? Pathetic. Pot/kettle much?

Turns out it was highly relevant anyway, so ya boo! 😂

I have to disagree with you - I don’t have grandchildren, but if I did, I sure as hell would be making it known that taking them to a country that was at war is the most ridiculous idea ever.