Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

If you've read all the OP's posts, it is clear that it is her fault. She questioned her son's motives for marrying her DIL, due to her age, background and nationality, on the assumption that her DIL was a gold digger. This would be very difficult for anyone to get past and build a functional relationship with their MIL.

@GrandmDEA

I'm not a young mum, I'm probably around your age with 2 adult sons. So don't disregard what I say as "Oh, I bet she doesn't like her MiL either, so she's prejudiced".

I think what you don't understand is that you not only burned the bridge, you set fire to it with a flame thrower. You've insulted his wife (and by extension him), you've denigrated their parenting decisions, and have further stirred the pot by showing up unannounced at their home. You seem to think you have the right to say and do whatever you want under the guise of 'truth telling' or 'helpful advice' as long as you apologize for it later to if there are any 'negative consequences' from them. It doesn't work that way.

I understand your concern about Ukraine, but it is their decision. After a small, quiet "Are you sure that's wise?" you should have said nothing more. Your son's approval or disapproval of his wife taking the DC there is none of your business unless he directly asks you to intervene.

Your son's first loyalty is to his wife, not to you. Not anymore. So you need to learn to take a back seat and basically STFU. It's not easy, I know, but it's the only way to keep the peace. Remember 'A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. The two shall become one'. Even if you aren't a 'believer', the words are still wise.

Whether or not your son made a wise choice in a wife, time will tell. But the success or failure of your son's marriage is up to him (and her). Stay out of it if you want to have any sort of relationship with him and his family going forward, if it's not too late already. As far as trying to repair things I'd suggest an acknowledgment of your past bad behaviour, an abject apology, a promise to do better in the future, and asking (not demanding) another chance. Whether that changes their minds about you or not, I have no idea. But if you continue on as you have been, I can guarantee that they'll go NC at some point and the door will be completely shut.

Unfortunately that is not your business, GrandmDEA.

I understand your concern but Ukrainians currently staying in the UK go back to visit all the time, despite the war, with or without children, and return unscathed. For all you know her family may live in an area that is not attacked so relatively safe.

Whatever, there's nothing you can do about it and voicing too many misgivings to people who have no doubt already discussed it thoroughly is pointless.

It is sad that you were not invited to their wedding but did they have a quick, quiet and small wedding and not invite anyone much? Some couples prefer that. Her family may have been there but they were on the spot whereas you would have faced a day's travel at least.

Did you get on well with your son before he moved abroad? That too is relevant.

Don't worry about them paying out a lot for their little house, lots of people do that and it's not forever. At least, while renting, they don't have to worry about maintenance of the house and they can up and leave fairly easily when they want to.

From now on just be there, be nice, don't try to interfere. Post things for birthdays, Christmas, etc. Relations may improve with time and when the children get a bit older they will almost certainly want to see you.

Concentrate on your oher children who are presumably nearer and, I hope, with whom you have good relations.

I do sympathise with how you feel, family relationships can be difficult to navigate at times and do cause disappointment.

You don’t need to “explicitly” call her anything. They know what you think of her and you’ve made a rod for your own back

and don’t even start me on “if we show up uninvited on the weekend,”

I mean Jesus fucking Christ no wonder they want nothing to do with you.

You might be better posting here:

https://www.gransnet.com/forums/estrangement/1335636-Support-and-friendship-For-Those-Estranged

The thing you need to focus on here OP is not who is right or wrong, who offended who or what you wish had happened years ago, but what you want to happen now. If your desired outcome is to have more time with your grandchildren you absolutely have to not express your views about their parenting, unless asked. It is a shame plans were cancelled but make the most of half term, make sure that when your son, DIL and DGC are in your company they leave having had a lovely time. This means avoid tense subjects, help out by doing things that make the parents’ life easier, find activities everyone will actually enjoy based on their interests and not one you think would be ‘nice’ due to some preconceived idea of how you want the day to go/look. If you do this: be flexible, positive, make times with you lovely and enjoyable, they’ll want to spend more time with you. If you dig your heels in over wanting them to be different you will just find yourself held at further distance. It’s up to you.

The DIL isn’t from a ‘smooth things over, smile and keep the peace while inwardly hating every moment of it’ culture. She doesn’t like OP so she’s not dealing with her. That’s it.

Nothing OP has said suggests she’s stopping her husband from visiting his mother, or that the distance he’s choosing to keep (which it seems he was keeping years before he even met his wife, and when he chose not to invite his family to their wedding) is anything other than his choice.

YABU to point that out.

I’m wondering the same thing.

It isn’t a good look. Either the mother and father raised a son to be so weak-willed that he is easily controlled, they’re misogynist that thinks men can do no wrong and it is always the woman’s fault when he does or doesn’t do xyz even with an obvious power imbalance and/or narcissistic parents that their happiness and views trump that of their adult son.

We initially expressed some concern that this may be the case, it was from wanting protect DS rather than being prejudiced. When we were told we were wrong we apologised.

We never explicitly called her anything. We expressed concern that the relationship may not be built on honest motives, due to her age and back ground.

So you thought that she was too young, too foreign and out to take him for everything he had. It’s ok to think that and even feel concerned about it but it’s definitely something better kept to yourself. I don’t think there’s any coming back from that even if you did apologise. My, very eligible bachelor son gets married next month to a non British National that, I feel, he hasn’t known for all that long. Do I have concerns? Yes. What have I said? “Congratulations son, I hope you will both be very happy.” “Just remember, your dad and I will always have your back.”

We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.

im not sure I would have much respect for people who considered me to be a gold digger.

if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy.

I have a good relationship with all my children but I wouldn’t show up uninvited (unless perhaps to drop something off) but not with the expectation of staying. It’s about boundaries.

We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back!

Again, it’s ok to feel concerned, worried or whatever you feel. It’s not ok to voice it. It’s her family. She is going to want to keep in touch.

One of my closest friends has no relationship with her eldest son and his family. She is insistent that she has done nothing to upset them. I could write a very long list just from things she’s told me.

I’m not sure there is any way back for you from this but you could start by not criticising anything about their lives next time your son visits, with or without the children.

This is all very good advice OP. You need to
learn how to keep your mouth shut.

Your DIL wants to spend time with her family, just as you do with yours. I can absolutely see where you are coming from on this. but it's your son and DIL's decision.

You show up uninvited? How unbelievably rude - I would be “busy” too.

Can I ask why you think this is insufferable? OP is worried about her grandchildren’s safety, and for very very good reason?

Is there anything that mumsnetters don't know.

Thank you so much. I'll flipping well bookmark it this time.

That site reminded me a lot of my MIL and my SIL with her children. There are also parallels with the way OP speaks about her DIL with my personal experiences with those two.

When I first met DH, I was working full time in the day and had a part time evening job as a waitress in a gastro pub. She showed up one evening, with his sister and brother in tow, while I was on shift. She parked herself in the bar and summoned me, via my boss, to the bar from the lounge where I was working as the sole waitress. I nearly got bloody sacked over it. The next day I was informed, by DH, of her opinion of the ginger fat girl who looked common and must be after his money.

I was 18, size fourteen, five foot eight, strawberry blonde, fairly pretty, nicely dressed and earned more than him. I also lived in a house in a nice quiet area. She was a 63 year old, wrinkled short arse in high heels who dressed like the stereotype of a movie hooker, toothless, lifelong work dodger who lived in a council flat on an estate with a very bad reputation with her similarly work dodging single daughter and her two children by different men. Once I got a flat and let DH move in with me, I was taking advantage of him, keeping him away from her and I'd never manage to last "five minutes". She used to tell lies, put me down, attempt to drip poison in his ear and get money out of him every time he visited. She used to tell everybody how he kept coming to borrow money from HER and never giving it back. We borrowed £10, ONCE on a tuesday, and gave it her back on Friday of the same week. There's a lot more but I can't be arsed. My SIL was much the same with her DIL but, strangely, she didn't give a shit about her daughters husbands.

Someone else has explained upthread that, whilst not ideal, the journey to Ukraine is not as severe of a risk as people would think.
Also calling your future DIL a young Eastern European gold digging conwoman is quite an insufferable thing to do.

You clearly don't like your sons wife. He must realise this and it's probably at the root of the problems you're having.

Were you not concerned that your adult son had started a relationship with a woman barely out of her teens? The predatory behaviour is more likely to have come from him than her.

We obviously don't know OPs tone and approach, but she is being flamed here for expressing concern in the early stages of DSs relationship. I do think there is a bit of a double standard here. If OP said my DD just met a man 10 yrs older from a different culture and wants to marry him before I even met him, the overwhelming response would be talk to your DD, set out your concerns etc.

Right…I missed that comment 😂 Thanks for clearing that up!

It's very very clear why the OP has a poor relationship with her son and DIL and doesn't see her grandchildren.

I wouldn't put up with that shit either and would honestly choose a week in war-torn Kyiv with my loving family to an afternoon with my in-laws and all the judgment.

And I agree that if anyone deserves judgment in that relationship it would be her son for getting together with a woman barely out of her teens.

The thing that makes me saddest about this is how even after behaving appallingly for a number of years, calling the woman he loves a gold digger and generally making his life difficult for no apparent reason, the OP’s only focus is on being excluded from the grandchildren
What about the poor son? I’d be absolutely heartbroken to end up with such a dreadful relationship with either of my amazing sons - yet this poor guy hasn’t even had a mention

Well if my son was in the same situation, of course I'd be concerned!!

She was very young, and they got married very quickly. I would have a discussion with my child too. Thing is, it's very delicate and you have to tread so carefully. Your son was well old enough to realise that a hasty marriage to a woman who was so young, and from a different culture had the potential to be problematic. And tbh if he was as mature as he was old, he should have understood why you were anxious about it.

Maybe you went too far - he was in love and he was not taking advice on board. At that point you should have accepted it - he was big enough and ugly enough to make his own mistakes and learn from them.

Not inviting you to their wedding was a huge "fuck you"!! Did you discuss this with him/them at the time? The damage is done; they know you don't approve of his choice of a wife, and if you wanted to mend fences then maybe you should have done that before they even had children. But instead, you've continued to question their decisions to the point of having angry rows with them. What has that achieved? Nothing. They are going to do what they want to do, as they should, and all you have done is push them even further away.

I don't blame you for being concerned. I defy any of the posters who've said horrible things to you to not have concerns if their 31 year old married a 21 year old whom he'd only known for 9 months!! Just like any of them would surely be anxious that the children are heading off to Ukraine with such a dangerous situation ongoing.

They don't want your concern - they have made that clear. And all the things you are blaming your DIL are failings on the part of your son. He is your blood relative, and it is up to him to foster his children's relationship with their grandparents. She is right to keep away. She knows you don't like her and that you disapprove of her. Would you want to spend time with such people?

Op
There is no coming back from calling someone a gold digger . She is never going to like you. What you can do is take as much rope as your son allows you.
Post the gifts to the kids with a nice card .
Text your son with non pressure texts and take it from there. Putting pressure on them for visits etc will just annoy them and alienate them further .