Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

So if she was an older woman from a foreign country or a younger woman from the UK, it wouldn't have provoked the same questions? And "not be seen as their type" by whom? You don't know her from Adam, you have no idea what "her type" is.
It's still very common to get married and have children young in that part of the world. Obviously, none of us can say whether or not there was an ulterior motive but you honestly thought you were "protecting your son" (who was plenty grown up in his early 30s and required no protection) by making this comment? And you thought you will be able to prevent her taking children to Ukraine by expressing your opinion about the safety of the trip "out of concern"? You are an overbearing parent and it very much looks as though you are prejudiced against a young woman on the basis of her being foreign. It's not a good look but it seems the belief is so far engrained that you can't even grasp how problematic it is.

A bloke visiting Ukraine in the middle of a war is potentially more risky. He'll struggle to get travel insurance and whilst there is an embassy there, it's more problematic if he does get into trouble.

Then theres the pressure of why isn't he fighting for Ukraine...

OP, you have a right to feel upset, you're missing your grandchildren. I do think you need to talk to your son alone if possible, be open about how you feel but also listen to what your son has to say, without reaction if possible. Your aim is to build your relationship so that you can grow close to your GC so openess and willingness to reflect are going to be important here. I did read that you are protective of your son so you may want to reflect on why this is as this may be influencing your reactions to your DIL. Getting support from a counsellor may help you to explore your thoughts and feelings in a safe space. All the best.

Pretty much aligned with many others have said, you sound very judgemental. I also don't understand what the small rented flat has to do with this story, why did you have to explain that? Clearly you have a problem with it. Same things about their age gap.
It's your son's job to manage his family relationship with the grandkids, not hers so I don't understand why you seem to mainly blame her instead of him? He is a grown up man.

Here you go

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/

Sure, but they got married quickly, with her very young, and they hadn't met her or been given a chance to know her. Perhaps if they had been given this chance, (like what normally happens during a serious relationship) they wouldn't have to worry so much about what she's like.

I get that you wouldn't want your in-laws to doubt you, but I think a little bit of doubt is normal if you haven't met before.

very normal for a young mum to spend time with her parents, even in Ukraine, taking the DC with her, and without the DH, who usually has to stay back to work. I know a few Russians who do similar - go to Russia for six weeks with their small children.

It’s their decision to make though. Sticking your oar in will NEVER go down well.

I understand your frustration and emotions but it’s definitely not your daughter-in-law fault. The main relation here to improve is between you and your son.

I myself moved to the UK couple of years ago and we got married here (my husband is British). Because of this my parents, unfortunately, could not attend the wedding. I didn’t even invite them. But they never hold it against me. It was too much hassle to sort visa and make them travel during those COVID days.

And yes, she, your daughter-in-law, has to travel to her home country to see her parents. I do the same and I will take little ones with me, because my parents deserve to see their grandchildren. It just shows she is a good daughter and has good relationship with her parents.

Sad that you don’t have better relationship with your son. I don’t know the story but often times parents do something and then wonder why their child doesn’t want to see them. But good news is that it’s not too late. You can and you should make up with your son and stop talking bad about his wife, because you really don’t know her.

Please sort yourself first. If you blame others, nothing will change. Therapy or even just analyzing your behavior might help.
Good luck, OP! Family is worth fighting for in my opinion and we should forgive and be able to put things behind for the sake of it.

You criticise her age, her background, her nationality, her motives and imply that she is a shit mum. You don’t send your dgc a card or gift on their birthdays. You turn up unannounced at a the home that you have also criticised. You criticise her relationship with her parents and her need to stay connected with them. You, honestly, don’t get to imply someone is a gold digger with dubious motives for marriage and then get invited to the wedding. That’s not a thing that happens. You don’t get to criticise someone’s wife and get invited to their home. You don’t get to criticise someone’s parenting, and have nice visits with their children. You are blaming your dil massively for your own son’s desire to not see you because of your behaviour. People don’t like spending time with people who openly dislike them. Some people do it anyway out of a sense of duty or obligation but loads of people are so far past that that it’s not a thing for them anymore. If anyone talked about my dh the way you talk about your DIL they wouldn’t be coming to my home.

If you want to build a new relationship with your ds then you need to strip all this crap away and build it yourself from the ground up. You can’t stand there tutting with your arms folded across your bosom waiting for some woman in her 20s dealing with 2 tiny kids, the fallout of war, work, her own relationships with people she actually likes etc to suddenly do the work for you. It’s not her job. Plus you called her a gold digger.

Obviously if a very attractive much younger woman is showing an interest in someone who would generally not be seen as their type or who is clearly much better off financially it is fair to question.

No it isn't fair to question, it's none of your business plus how the hell could you possibly have known what 'her type' was?

That they are another man’s kids?
That’s the only reason why “They are not his kids”

It’s strange that he’s not travelling with them- You’d think he would.

Does he see you, @GrandmDEA when his wife is away?

If so, that is very telling.

You have "never met her" and also "haven't seen her since Christmas"? Which?

I'd love to hear your DS and "D"DIL's take on this.

Then theres the pressure of why isn't he fighting for Ukraine...

I assume DS is British. Marrying a Ukrainian woman doesn't bring citizenship or any obligations towards the Ukrainian state.

What is it with mothers apparently raising sons who are so easily manipulated by a woman? My (usually lovely) MIL is very like this - anything DH or his DB does that she doesn't like must be entirely down to the woman in his life. DH and I joke that DH could run off with a woman half his age and somehow it would be entirely my fault. I have a DS and I really hope that I don't do this.

What an absolute mystery why she doesn't like you.

You have "never met her" and also "haven't seen her since Christmas"? Which?

To be fair, the first post says "We had never met her, meaning at the time they got married". (Unless I've missed another "We have never met her".)

Clearly you would have stopped having sex and of let yourself go. So it’s no wonder he would of strayed with some young thing yoga pants wearing little thang 🤣

also ignoring his needs for the children tut tut

It sounds like your son decided to distance himself from his family even before he met his wife. I doubt much of the distance now has anything to do with his wife, she's simply supporting him. You need to take an honest look at your relationship, have you favoured his siblings? The choice is yours whether you work to rebuild the relationship (keeping your opinions to yourself) and allow him to live his own life.

I can understand why you feel upset OP but these are some words of advice from a paternal grandma; 'Put up and shut up' and keep your opinions to yourself.
Otherwise, it's not going to work

"He has been with them just around Christmas time both years but his wife has taken them during summer and for easter and he hasn't gone with them. I'm not sure why."
The obvious answer, surely, is because he doesn't have the annual leave to do so? And he trusts his wife to cope on the journey?

"It wasn't a small wedding, all her family and friends, many of his colleagues and several of his friends from the UK travelled to go. His reason for not inviting us was "We might be judgemental of his choice". He told one of his brothers but didn't invite either of them."
And right there is a big pointer, and I'm not talking about "judgemental". He didn't invite either of his brothers either. He didn't invite any of his family, although he did invite his friends. This suggests your son does not feel close to his family - any of you. There's going to be a reason for that, and you're going to have to consider what that reason is. I think lots of can see, just by reading your own words, what that reason might be, although you do seem oblivious to it.

He told you straight - that you "might be judgemental of his choice"* *. And you are! And he was able to anticipate that you would be judgemental. Have you been judgemental of his choices in the past? Answer that question honestly (to yourself at least, if not here). What was your family dynamic before he went abroad? Was he the Favourite Son, or the Criticised Son, or the Disappointing Son, or - what? Were you in the habit of comparing your sons, and finding him wanting when you did so? How did he feel about his place within the family before he went?

"We see both of our other sons most days, we provide childcare for our other grandchildren and have them all for dinner on Wednesdays. They don't see much of their brother either."
Frankly, that statement suggests several possibilities. But given your son has chosen to largely absent himself from his parents AND his brothers, it's more likely that you are all rather unhealthily enmeshed than that you are a big happy Waltons-like extended family. Do your other two sons/wives/DCs all come on Wednesday to ensure the continuance of free childcare, or because this is how they want to spend their lives? Who suggested this Weekly Gathering?

I think you need to take a step back and look at how your family functions, and - more importantly - how it functioned before he went abroad to work.

As an aside, and this is about me and not you, I would be a bit judgemental about your son's relationship. But that's because I would be looking askance at a 31-year-old man who marries a 21-year-old woman, not the other way around. It bespeaks a desire to be the more powerful in an asymmetric relationship, and that's never going to be good for the younger woman. And again, I'd be wondering where that desire to be powerful came from, possibly from feeling powerless in his youth. Any ideas how he might feel that way?

AIBU is not a representative place to ask; most are just after aggro and anti OP slagging matches.

Of course YANBU to be upset they have cancelled last minute for a shitty reason.

I would wait til your son next visits alone and talk with him. Let him know that you love them all and are sad that the relationship is minimal. That you're concerned you've done something wrong as the reasons they give to not come are strange. That it's ok if they don't want to see you, but you deserve to hear this from them, not have last minute cancellations and a distinct lack of effort. It's hurtful.

See what he says. It's possible that you may lose this relationship, which is very sad, but thats not your fault and not a lot you can do.

No it doesn't. But I would not like to be a British man married to a Ukrainian who just goes to visit. There would still be social pressure to stay and fight and a certain amount of resentment about it I would wager at this stage.

That’s about the size of it.

I don’t think telling op she is vile etc is necessary.

The simple truth is if you want to be in your grandchildren’s lives, you can’t do it on your terms. It’s like expecting to be invited to supper at someone else’s house on your own terms.

I'm sorry but I think your DIL has basically deleted you because she thinks you're a pain, and because she can. Mothers are held responsible for literally everything and are constantly criticised, but the flip side of that is that they get to, and have to, call the shots with the kids. She is the children's mother. They're her kids, not yours.

If you want to know your grandkids, you need to start behaving respectfully to your DIL.