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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

8 year olds school project gone wrong!

61 replies

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:44

Firstly I would like to quickly explain that this is the first time I have ever posted, so apologies if I don’t explain myself fully or too much!

My son is 8 years old, his class are doing a project at school over the full term, where they design and then present a new “food or drink” product. They have been separated into small groups of 3/4 pupils. My son was really excited initially at the prospect and came home immediately designing some wacky and fun ideas…things like magic burping drinks and hotdog shaped crisps!

The next week he then returns home very upset as his group have chosen to design a fizzy pink wine drink for adults. He explained that only one child in the group had wanted this idea and that they had managed to dominate the discussion. We discussed ways he could promote his own ideas and ways he could encourage the group to be more democratic.

After a chat with my partner, (he is a GP and I am a social worker) I also then wrote to the teacher expressing my concern that firstly the group wasn’t hearing everyone’s voice, and secondly most importantly we had concerns how appropriate it is for 8 year old children to be thinking about and promoting alcohol.

The teacher replies stating that they had witnessed some of the groups discussion, that they thought it was a “sweet” idea and they didn’t think the children had intended for the wine drink to be alcoholic. They said if I wanted to discuss further to talk to them.

We agree with my son that he will go back to school and try to address it himself, talking to the other opposing members in the group (there are only 3 children..so the idea is only coming from one child) and making a new idea, going with the majority.

He came home yesterday so upset and crestfallen. He said that both he and the other group member had said they didn’t want this idea, however when the teacher asked the group to confirm their product she had spoken out first, so wine it is!!!

I feel that this is really unacceptable on a few levels, including what I consider a safeguarding issue. Yes children are aware of alcohol at age 8, they understand it’s for adults, however do I want my son thinking about it in such a positive and ill informed way! I think it’s a PSHE topic, which should obviously be approached but when they are older. I would much prefer his mind to be consumed with magic burping potions and hotdogs!!!

I really don’t know how to proceed. I don’t want to create any unnecessary pressure for my son, it’s not really his responsibility to police the group, I also don’t want to be that overly anxious “helicopter” parent…whatever that means!!!!

What do you think??? Would you be ok with it? Should I approach the teacher again? Should I encourage my son to go back and challenge it even though it might make him anxious? I’m in a bit of a pickle about this! All advice welcome please.

OP posts:

Babbadoobabbadock · 26/09/2024 06:47

You’re overthinking. It’ll be an enterprise project, I presume they’ll be designing logos, packaging, each doing a different job etc ? It’s about team work.

parrotonmyshoulder · 26/09/2024 06:48

It’s good that your DS can come home and tell you about his difficulties with group work, and will do him good to know he has someone who really listens to him. That, and your suggestions of what he can try, will really help in the long term as he gets to grips with working with different people in different ways.
But you can’t expect the teacher to make the group change to his idea. You’ve done your bit, he’s tried his strategy, now it’s time to accept disappointment this time and move forward.

RhaenysRocks · 26/09/2024 06:49

I think there's two separate issues here. One is the wine / alcohol thing which I agree is not appropriate and I'd be asking the teacher to override it, even if not directly in favour of your son's ideas. The other is the group dynamic which I think your son will need to handle himself and be assertive if the other kid agrees with him. I teach secondary and when we do group work I'm pretty careful about who I put together so that hopefully everyone gets a chance to be involved. Speaking up for yourself is a life skill and an important one for him to learn.

AlertCat · 26/09/2024 06:50

It sounds as if the teacher could have gently helped the group to hear each other’s ideas and then choose one in a more communal way; it’s not great for one kid to dominate a discussion. I would also tend to agree that wine isn’t ideal for this project, unless you are warning about its effects.

Could he maybe make his advertising material emphasise the burp-producing aspects of this fizzy wine drink, so that he gets to kind of do his idea anyway?

DappledThings · 26/09/2024 06:51

parrotonmyshoulder · 26/09/2024 06:48

Well said.

It's hard when our children are upset but in group work there's always going to be a few children disappointed when their idea isn't the winning one. Learning to deal with that and move on positively is really important.

LydiaTomos · 26/09/2024 06:52

I wouldn't be happy with the wine /alcohol aspect at all. If the teacher didn't overrule the idea I would be tempted to phone the headteacher.

Marmalady75 · 26/09/2024 06:54

As a teacher, I would have gently led them away from the alcohol idea. Even if it was simply to a fizzy pink drink. If I hadn’t noticed that part and a parent had written or called to query the alcohol aspect, it would have been changed at that point.
if it’s part of a PSHE project it should be a healthy food or drink.

Original poster

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:56

I’d like to add that had he returned and been upset the idea chosen wasn’t something like
alcohol / tobacco etc I wouldn’t have even considered challenging it. We would have just discussed team work / group dynamics etc.

the issue isn’t it’s not my sons idea. The problem is the alcohol bit…apologies I didn’t make this clearer.

OP posts:

Lemonadeand · 26/09/2024 07:11

The alcohol aspect is a problem. The teacher should have told them to change it. What about kids in families that don’t drink for religious/cultural reasons?

The one kid dominating the group project is just kids learning to work together as a team. He needs to develop the skills to navigate these kinds of situations so by the time he is an adult he can work well with others. So do all the kids.

Mrsttcno1 · 26/09/2024 07:12

Ah I see, if the alcohol is the only bit you’re worried about then I think you’re best to just leave it. The object of the task is teamwork, as the teacher says they’re not really even focusing on “it’s alcohol” it’s more just that it’s a drink for adults etc.

Jessbow · 26/09/2024 07:14

Presumably they are not actually making the product,no one would allow an 8 year old make alcohol, would they?.Even if they are making a physical product, it wont be alcoholic, so they will make a drink they call 'wine' . Its a name, i guess one of them thought ''wine' sounded grown up,and a bit risque- itsjust an ordinary non alcohol drink

Whyherewego · 26/09/2024 07:17

I'd agree that the wine element is inappropriate and given the teacher said you could get in touch if you still had concerns. I'd get in touch. It's not appropriate for children to be designing a product like that. If it was cigarettes would the teacher be OK? They are legal too. So I agree, fizzy pink drink but not a wine.

TheCoralDog · 26/09/2024 07:24

i think yes challenge the wine element. But they won't need up creating an alcopop design really will they? It'll just be fizzy pink drink. It's sad when he was so excited. Get him to design his own thing at home.

Also I think he needs to work on his assertiveness tbh. When she spoke up, that was his chance to raise his hand and say "actually no, we didn't agree on that. XX wants to do this idea but we don't agree so we are still undecided". With so many dominating children it's important for kids not to be pushovers.

GuestFeatu · 26/09/2024 07:28

including what I consider a safeguarding issue

You're a social worker and you think children designing a wine drink is a safeguarding issue?? Which section of the children act does this fall under then? Come on.

bergamotorange · 26/09/2024 07:32

The alcohol aspect IS an issue.

I would say I'm not happy for my child to design an alcoholic product and I want them to move group.

Copy in the head as the teacher needs more support.

bergamotorange · 26/09/2024 07:35

GuestFeatu · 26/09/2024 07:28

including what I consider a safeguarding issue

You're a social worker and you think children designing a wine drink is a safeguarding issue?? Which section of the children act does this fall under then? Come on.

It is a safeguarding concern as to the teacher's judgement and practice, as quite obviously teachers shouldn't be normalising drinking to young children.

BeMintBee · 26/09/2024 07:40

The problem is you complained that FIRSTLY your son’s voice wasn’t heard and then mention the the issue with them designing an alcoholic drink so anything you follow up with will look like your son has come home and stamped his feet about not getting his own way. You say it’s not really about the decision being all one persons but that is a big part of it in your post!

I think all you can do now is say that if the group are sticking with this idea it has just a pink fizzy drink and not called “wine” or that you are happy for your son to move group. I’m surprised the teacher isn’t realising it’s not appropriate I’m sure if they’d come up with something related to cigarettes she would have seen the issue!

itsgettingweird · 26/09/2024 07:41

It's group work.

A group of 3.

Someone will have their idea used and others won't. If your ds idea had been used and another child hated it you wouldn't be so worried!

At 8yo there's always someone totally dominant and those who yet aren't ready enough to assert their one independence and ideas.

These dominant kids have a harder time in teens years when people are able to start standing up to them.

But I agree the idea of promoting something called wine isn't ideal but they read HP at this age and the kids drink butter beer so I don't think it's the end of the world.

doodleschnoodle · 26/09/2024 07:42

Are the kids actually aware that it's anything to do with alcohol? It sounds from what the teacher said that the name 'wine' is just being used as presumably they think it sounds grown up, not because it was intended to be alcoholic, and to all intents and purposes is just a fizzy pink drink and will be designed and marketed as such?

doodleschnoodle · 26/09/2024 07:43

I was just thinking about butterbeer too!

BoxOfCats · 26/09/2024 07:45

Well this is quite an interesting one for me, because my actual job is Head of Innovation in an alcohol company.

I would say it's very reflective of what can happen in the real world, so a very good learning opportunity for him!

ThinkingUpsideDown · 26/09/2024 07:46

I would be unhappy about the alcohol aspect too. The teacher should have guided the group away from alcohol to something else, even if it was just a pink fizzy drink. I would keep perspective, however. The aim of the project is about teamwork, so whilst your son may be upset, there is still an opportunity for him to contribute ideas. It is possible that at the end of the project the idea will have evolved dramatically eg. "We had originally thought of making an alcoholic fizzy drink for adults but during our planning stage we noticed a gap in the market for celebration drinks for kids so we decided to make It alcohol-free. This new drink lets you do a mega burp because of the bubbles - an excellent party trick".
I would be encouraging him to use this opportunity to practice being assertive/advocating for himself.
I think you are right to be unhappy about the alcohol issue/especially after voicing concerns.

AgainandagainandagainSS · 26/09/2024 07:50

Group projects/teamwork are very very hard OP, and this will be a steep learning curve for your son. Many grown adults struggle with it. But he will learn a lot about working with others and dealing with disappointment.

JudgieJudie · 26/09/2024 07:52

(he is a GP and I am a social worker)
Is this why you think you are automatically right? Like the other children need to acquiesce to you and yours?

BrokenSushiLook · 26/09/2024 07:53

There are no bad consequences here for what happens if the project doesn't change. All that is really needed is that you insist the teacher makes sure it is specified to be an alcohol free drink in all the project materials.

Group design work is a normal thing and groups being dominated by one highly opinionated individual whose ideas are a bit rubbish is also goong to happen very frequently. It happened to my DC for a piece of GCSE coursework. It's brilliant that your DS is encountering this now. It will be helpful for him as he will start to develop the skills to avoid similar things happening again. In a few years time (I wouldn't expect 8 year olds to have these skills) he might have the confidence to guide the group discussion in a way that ensures everyone gets heard. Presumably other group members also had ideas thar never got taken up. Having this experience will be a long term benefit.

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