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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

8 year olds school project gone wrong!

61 replies

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:44

Firstly I would like to quickly explain that this is the first time I have ever posted, so apologies if I don’t explain myself fully or too much!

My son is 8 years old, his class are doing a project at school over the full term, where they design and then present a new “food or drink” product. They have been separated into small groups of 3/4 pupils. My son was really excited initially at the prospect and came home immediately designing some wacky and fun ideas…things like magic burping drinks and hotdog shaped crisps!

The next week he then returns home very upset as his group have chosen to design a fizzy pink wine drink for adults. He explained that only one child in the group had wanted this idea and that they had managed to dominate the discussion. We discussed ways he could promote his own ideas and ways he could encourage the group to be more democratic.

After a chat with my partner, (he is a GP and I am a social worker) I also then wrote to the teacher expressing my concern that firstly the group wasn’t hearing everyone’s voice, and secondly most importantly we had concerns how appropriate it is for 8 year old children to be thinking about and promoting alcohol.

The teacher replies stating that they had witnessed some of the groups discussion, that they thought it was a “sweet” idea and they didn’t think the children had intended for the wine drink to be alcoholic. They said if I wanted to discuss further to talk to them.

We agree with my son that he will go back to school and try to address it himself, talking to the other opposing members in the group (there are only 3 children..so the idea is only coming from one child) and making a new idea, going with the majority.

He came home yesterday so upset and crestfallen. He said that both he and the other group member had said they didn’t want this idea, however when the teacher asked the group to confirm their product she had spoken out first, so wine it is!!!

I feel that this is really unacceptable on a few levels, including what I consider a safeguarding issue. Yes children are aware of alcohol at age 8, they understand it’s for adults, however do I want my son thinking about it in such a positive and ill informed way! I think it’s a PSHE topic, which should obviously be approached but when they are older. I would much prefer his mind to be consumed with magic burping potions and hotdogs!!!

I really don’t know how to proceed. I don’t want to create any unnecessary pressure for my son, it’s not really his responsibility to police the group, I also don’t want to be that overly anxious “helicopter” parent…whatever that means!!!!

What do you think??? Would you be ok with it? Should I approach the teacher again? Should I encourage my son to go back and challenge it even though it might make him anxious? I’m in a bit of a pickle about this! All advice welcome please.

OP posts:
SendMeHomeNow · 26/09/2024 07:55

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:56

I’d like to add that had he returned and been upset the idea chosen wasn’t something like
alcohol / tobacco etc I wouldn’t have even considered challenging it. We would have just discussed team work / group dynamics etc.

the issue isn’t it’s not my sons idea. The problem is the alcohol bit…apologies I didn’t make this clearer.

Edited

That was clear to me OP. I absolutely agree with you that you should take this further. I’d encourage him to do his idea anyway as an extra project personally.

Treeinthesky · 26/09/2024 07:56

I hope l you aren't trying to make the teacher pick your sons idea. Tell him young life isn't perfect and just because he is male doesn't mean he gets his ideas over everyone else.

oakleaffy · 26/09/2024 07:59

JudgieJudie · 26/09/2024 07:52

(he is a GP and I am a social worker)
Is this why you think you are automatically right? Like the other children need to acquiesce to you and yours?

😂
I too thought that.

Loads of people would also think alcohol is a poor idea for children to be promoting as an exercise.

Probably the child who suggested it has wine drinking parents or it wouldn’t be on their radar.

parrotonmyshoulder · 26/09/2024 08:00

I would actually raise alcohol concerns, but not in a dramatic ‘ring the headteacher’ way. You could just speak to the teacher, and ask how’s she’s managing it. She may well be using it as a discussion point around romanticising and marketing of alcohol.
To be honest, I wouldn’t have allowed it as a teacher, but as a parent, I don’t think it’s a safeguarding or complaint level issue. an opportunity to show your child what YOUR family views and culture is, and how this might differ from others.

notacooldad · 26/09/2024 08:04

I would be OK with it.
I would not have gone to the school and spoken to the teachers.
We discussed ways he could promote his own ideas and ways he could encourage the group to be more democratic.
This is good but I would have pointed out that he is going to meet people like this through out his life, especially at work, so he needs to practice how to handle them. This incident will help build his resilience and is a lesson on those that shout the loudest.

What about kids in families that don’t drink for religious/cultural reasons?
They aren't actually making it are they? If they are, then I wouldn't be so happy but if it's just designing and presenting then I'm fine with it.

I would leave it now. You've been in once complaining about him not being heard, to go in a second time complaining about what they doing is making it look like your stamping your feet because your son didn't get his own way. At least the girl who got her own way used her voice and not got her mum to do it for her.
Bravo to that girl for making sure she was heard!

ManhattanPopcorn · 26/09/2024 08:11

Wine is inappropriate, even if they specify alcohol free. It's no more appropriate than those sweets they used to sell that look like cigarettes.

I don't think any of my dss teachers would have been ok with that. They should have been steered away from alcohol.

GuestFeatu · 26/09/2024 08:17

bergamotorange · 26/09/2024 07:35

Confused It is a safeguarding concern as to the teacher's judgement and practice, as quite obviously teachers shouldn't be normalising drinking to young children.

Drinking is normalised. It's legal and very much normalised in the prevailing culture of the UK. In what way is the teacher harming the children by allowing this? Because that's what 'safeguarding' means. Protecting children from harm. And when we talk about harm, as social workers/teachers/other professionals we are talking about harm that meets the legal threshold for intervention. Safeguarding does have a specific meaning and scope. Where is the actual, measurable harm here?

ChocolateCroissantCafe · 26/09/2024 08:22

I'm really surprised the teacher didn't pick up on that right away, it would have been so easy to laugh the wine part off immediately and say let's make that a fizzy juice - ok, next group, what's your idea. Now it's been allowed to carry on it's more awkward, isn't it. Not thinking for a moment that kids are unaware of alcohol, but having them come up with a product and think about how to promote it doesn't feel quite right.

Luio · 26/09/2024 08:23

Group work is always a nightmare in school. The young ones get hugely enthusiastic and all want to be in charge and do everything. The older ones avoid contributing at all hoping that the most conscientious team member will come up with all the ideas and do the work. He will soon learn to save his enthusiasm for solo projects.

CreateUserNames · 26/09/2024 08:28

AzureMantaRays · 26/09/2024 06:44

Firstly I would like to quickly explain that this is the first time I have ever posted, so apologies if I don’t explain myself fully or too much!

My son is 8 years old, his class are doing a project at school over the full term, where they design and then present a new “food or drink” product. They have been separated into small groups of 3/4 pupils. My son was really excited initially at the prospect and came home immediately designing some wacky and fun ideas…things like magic burping drinks and hotdog shaped crisps!

The next week he then returns home very upset as his group have chosen to design a fizzy pink wine drink for adults. He explained that only one child in the group had wanted this idea and that they had managed to dominate the discussion. We discussed ways he could promote his own ideas and ways he could encourage the group to be more democratic.

After a chat with my partner, (he is a GP and I am a social worker) I also then wrote to the teacher expressing my concern that firstly the group wasn’t hearing everyone’s voice, and secondly most importantly we had concerns how appropriate it is for 8 year old children to be thinking about and promoting alcohol.

The teacher replies stating that they had witnessed some of the groups discussion, that they thought it was a “sweet” idea and they didn’t think the children had intended for the wine drink to be alcoholic. They said if I wanted to discuss further to talk to them.

We agree with my son that he will go back to school and try to address it himself, talking to the other opposing members in the group (there are only 3 children..so the idea is only coming from one child) and making a new idea, going with the majority.

He came home yesterday so upset and crestfallen. He said that both he and the other group member had said they didn’t want this idea, however when the teacher asked the group to confirm their product she had spoken out first, so wine it is!!!

I feel that this is really unacceptable on a few levels, including what I consider a safeguarding issue. Yes children are aware of alcohol at age 8, they understand it’s for adults, however do I want my son thinking about it in such a positive and ill informed way! I think it’s a PSHE topic, which should obviously be approached but when they are older. I would much prefer his mind to be consumed with magic burping potions and hotdogs!!!

I really don’t know how to proceed. I don’t want to create any unnecessary pressure for my son, it’s not really his responsibility to police the group, I also don’t want to be that overly anxious “helicopter” parent…whatever that means!!!!

What do you think??? Would you be ok with it? Should I approach the teacher again? Should I encourage my son to go back and challenge it even though it might make him anxious? I’m in a bit of a pickle about this! All advice welcome please.

I think it is a good chance to learn about the real world. Learn the mistake, be upset, AND remember to speak up next time!

MumblesParty · 26/09/2024 08:30

JudgieJudie · 26/09/2024 07:52

(he is a GP and I am a social worker)
Is this why you think you are automatically right? Like the other children need to acquiesce to you and yours?

@JudgieJudie I think maybe you have a chip on your shoulder. The point of their jobs is that they have first hand experience in healthcare, damaging effects of alcohol, alcoholism, impact on children of alcohol abuse etc etc. In more detail than someone who works in banking might have.

Luio · 26/09/2024 08:30

I would tell them to ditch the ‘wine’ label but praise them for thinking of a target market that wasn’t themselves.

MumblesParty · 26/09/2024 08:33

I wouldn’t allow an 8 year old to do a project promoting alcohol. I would tell the teacher that unless she tells the group to make it a soft drink, your son won’t be involved.

JudgieJudie · 26/09/2024 08:41

MumblesParty · 26/09/2024 08:30

@JudgieJudie I think maybe you have a chip on your shoulder. The point of their jobs is that they have first hand experience in healthcare, damaging effects of alcohol, alcoholism, impact on children of alcohol abuse etc etc. In more detail than someone who works in banking might have.

I work in Law. But thank you for your 'diagnosis'

TheYearOfSmallThings · 26/09/2024 09:07

The wine thing wouldn't bother me one way or the other (or no more than a burping drink Grin)

As for working in groups and being over-spoken by a loud and dominant child, my son has experienced this and I have actually found it useful practice to make him speak up for himself. He has the tendency to hang back, politely wait his turn to speak, wait for other to listen to him, and in the long run that will do him no good. He has got much better at speaking first, speaking clearly, getting his hand up and ensuring he gets his turn. He had to lose a few battles to be convinced that this was necessary, and primary school is a good place to learn that.

balletflats · 26/09/2024 09:12

MumblesParty · 26/09/2024 08:33

I wouldn’t allow an 8 year old to do a project promoting alcohol. I would tell the teacher that unless she tells the group to make it a soft drink, your son won’t be involved.

How would that work? He could sit and read while the rest of the class did the project, I guess. What would he learn about working as a team from that?

Button28384738 · 26/09/2024 09:25

I agree the alcohol aspect is problematic- but it doesn't sound like they are aware wine is alcoholic? They're making a fun fizzy pink drink for adults

The teacher has responded to your concerns and said she witnessed some of their discussions. I think you have to trust the teacher on this one. The teamwork thing is one your son is going to have to learn for himself. You have given him suggestions on techniques he can use next time so I would just leave it now.

Button28384738 · 26/09/2024 09:28

Even if you complain again about the alcohol the teacher is just likely to make them change the name from wine to something like "non alcoholic fizz", so he still won't be getting his idea.
Tell him to move on and do his best on the idea that's been chosen - he can still have fun designing packaging and advertising etc

EngineEngineNumber9 · 26/09/2024 09:33

My main issue would be that fizzy pink wine isn’t a new invention.

tolerable · 26/09/2024 09:53

8 yer olds designing a "fizzy pink wine drink for adults"doesnt necesarily mean alchohol.!!!!!!!!!! thats YOUR perception.
(could easily just be massive amounts of cbd oil or stackt with caffine donchu know)
Aye its shite when your wee and group work doesnt agree with your idea.
BUT they have selected the product-aimed at a target market(ie adults) so probably try get him to refocus on the label(NOT FOR CHILDREN) etc. get his head in the tem aspect.

if you hadnt have mentioned you was a social worker i mighta just eye rolled at the safeguarding issue.
i am REALLY Trying not to be vile but can you refresh your understanding of that.
8year olds live ,in real life.EVEN if had attempted fizzy pink wine for kids,it wouldnt be aa safeguarding issue
unless em expected to physically create the product and have a couple of taster sessions.ffs

Mayflower282 · 26/09/2024 10:15

I think it’s a great learning opportunity for him to understand that he can’t always have things his way. Would probably benefit you too.

tattygrl · 26/09/2024 10:37

This is the most middle class, hand wringing nonsense. You emailed his teacher saying you're concerned "not everyone's voice is being heard"? Helping your child process his disappointment and guiding him on ways to practice being assertive is great, but this is all a bit much for one small school project. It might benefit him to also learn how to roll with the punches a bit and keep things in perspective. Getting this in the weeds about one tricky bit of group work is just not sustainable.

MartinCrieffsLemon · 26/09/2024 10:39

We used to drink Shloer as "wine" when children. A fizzy pink "wine" drink like that wouldn't be alcohol. So long as they aren't using phrases like "will get you drunk" etc then I wouldn't think alcohol.

What about when one parent objects to his "burping drink" because they think burps are bad manners and poor taste and don't think children should be encouraged to behave like animals? Or one complains because his hot dog shaped crisps promote unhealthy eating and junk food?

Trying to place your own, personal, judgements on things only makes it hard for everyone

Beth216 · 26/09/2024 10:40

The children didn't intend the wine drink to be alcoholic? Lol, does the teacher know what wine is? Of course she should have been steering them away from calling it 'wine', and i have no idea what's 'sweet' about it. I can only assume the teacher and all the other defensive posters are big wine drinkers themselves and don't see the issue.

Personally I think the problem was OP that you started by saying 'not all voices were being heard' - well that's hardly surprising when they're 8 years old. I think you should have just stuck to the alcohol issue.

I agree with a PP who said why don't you develop the idea with him to make this fun for him too. Either make the pink fizzy wine a joke product that isn't actually wine and really makes grown ups do great big burps. Alternatively if the dominant team mate is set on nice wine for grownups there could be two products, a grown up alcoholic one and a kids big burps one and they could design adults and kids versions. Help him to work with what he's got and make it work for him. It's a project for 8 year olds so he can go with it where he wants really - no ones going to fail.

Yalta · 26/09/2024 10:40

Only read huge opening post so forgive me if this has already been mentioned

I thought the instruction was to come up with a new food and drink?

Fizzy Pink Wine or Pink Prosecco isn’t a new food or drink

I would point this out to your son and tell him to either tell this child that Fizzy Pink Wine already exists and isn’t a “new food or drink” or for him and the other child to play along with this child and insist the wine is called Prosecco Rose

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