To think the "Darlington Five" are being treated incredibly badly in order to indulge a bloke

[Zahariel]

Shocking behaviour from the local NHS trust, five women have been forced out of their changing rooms because a man wants to come in and get naked in front of them.

https://archive.ph/NhzFG

Why are they being punished? They're the victims? Why can't he go into the special new changing room?

Testing NC works

So I understand the basic issues and agree with the Darlington nurses.

But I want to ask if women (not these specific nurses in this specific case) would ever say ‘ok, men/trans women in the women’s changing room is fine. For the next hour I, (a woman) am a trans man and I and my ten friends shall go into the men’s loo or changing room and behave as if I belong there’. So eg go to John Lewis with some friends, take your jumpers or coats and try them on in the men’s changing room to take up the spaces, cause a bit of a problem. Or go to the men’s loo and use the cubicles, let a queue form. Would or have women ever done that? Is it a good idea, and why or why not?

This is not about John Lewis or Darlington, I just used that as an example as it’s already been mentioned in the post.

NCforGCstuff

Google "Mumsnet man Friday".

I thought the TRA argument was that if someone was behaving inappropriately it should be dealt with. Here the person in question is behaving inappropriately... so of course the women are told to put up and shut up.

Most, but by no means all, men would not care. Maybe 20-25% would. And the basics are women can’t rape men, so it’s inherently not a good comparison.

I probably wouldn't, partly out of concern for my own safety, partly because men's toilets are grim, partly out of respect for men's privacy and dignity.

However, I have in the past said that if we can't get men to support women's right to single sex spaces, the nuclear option would be for women to start rinsing their mooncups out in the men's toilets and see how quickly the men start demanding that everyone uses the correct facilities for their sex. Because I imagine a lot of bearded he/him wokebros' commitment to being kind only extends as far as it doesn't have a negative effect on men.

Exactly @MrBungle. Men are not threatened by women. It actually undermines the point if women mob a male space, because then the men say “look we don’t care so what’s your problem?”

I constantly argue this with my dh who thinks he is discriminated against for being “white mc and male.” He has no clue what it’s like to experience life feeling afraid and uncomfortable, he doesn’t appreciate that that is the norm for many women. He talks about women using inappropriate sexual and sexist language about men at work, but he doesn’t understand that whilst the crude language should be disciplined, it doesn’t tap into a fear in the same way.

I totally understand that some transwomen also feel afraid . But their rights to feel safe don’t trump mine.

Bloody nhs needs to sort itself out.

This is bonkers. Time to revert back to the old time matrons who ran the places and didn't take any messing around.

I have to be honest.

No one can look at a person with balls and a dangling willy and think ‘ah a woman’. It really is emperor’s new clothes stuff. Especially when they are discussing getting their gf pregnant. I would love to know in what way they thought of themselves as a woman.

That isn’t to say that I don’t sympathise with trans people who want to quietly live their lives and interfere in others as little as possible.

The good thing is society is gradually rowing back from this view and, regardless of what you think of Trump, the U,S will lead the way and, if we have any sense, we will follow. Otherwise, we risk a Farage government.

I suspect a year ago this post would have been deleted. I suspect today it will stand. But we shall see if MN has moved with the times.

I just find myself getting distracted by his penis .. sorry her penis.

It's almost as if we didn't know that we were being paid lip service too...

Of course we refuse to see trans women as they identify. Because they're men. Irrespective of whatever drugs or surgeries they have. Just because they believe themselves to be something doesn't mean that the rest of the world also has to indulge in that belief. No men, regardless of his "feelings" should be in women's single sex spaces

Ah lots of links to read, thanks. I’d not heard of that.