AIBU to think that this isn't an okay way to deal with toddler tantrums?

[Miniope]

Needing the opinions of others as I am very close to leaving my children's dad over this.

DP and I have a 3 and 1 year old and he just can't seem to deal with them crying at all. Our 3 year old (she literally just turned 3) has not long started nursery this term. She never really used to have tantrums but since starting nursery she has been having some big ones fairly regularly, mainly when she's tired or hungry. I think this is normal development and I won't pander to her if she's demanding something (unless it's something reasonable and understandable) but I don't chastise her either because I think it's pointless. I think she needs support to learn to regulate her emotions. DP on the other hand sees this as being too soft and pandering to her. If she has a tantrums or cries loudly he will firmly and loudly tell her 'no!' or to stop. If he is holding her he will put her down on the spot in a horrible dismissive manner and walk away which just makes her more upset.

Since this has started she has also been waking a lot at night and coming into our bed. Once on our bed she will fall asleep again but often wake up screaming inconsolable. The only thing I can do is comfort her until she falls asleep again. I used to have awful nightmares that started about that age so I wonder this is the cause. DP, however, gets really annoyed and angry at this, in the last few weeks he has told her off for crying, stormed out the room to sleep on the sofa shouting at me that this is fucking ridiculous, and last night has tipped it all over the edge. She started to cry and scream, he initially was calm and got her a bottle of milk to see if it would soothe her but she continued crying saying she didn't want it. He then started to tell her off telling her that she was waking everyone up, eventually he got up and grabbed her from me sharply and carried her through to her room and dumped her there then walked away. By this point she was screaming in what sounded like sheer terror. I went straight through to her, taking the baby with me who had been woken by it all but was quite happy, he told me not to go through but I couldn't leave her like that. I ended up sleeping on her toddler floorbed with her and the baby. I know we'll need to work towards her spending the full night ij her own bed at some point and there might be some crying involved, but I don't think just grabbing her and dumping her is an okay way to do it.

He is a great dad in many other ways but it's like a switch goes off if they cry and he just can't handle it. For context, he grew up in a home with extreme domestic violence, his dad beat him and his mum on a regular basis, DP has never been violent towards us but I think it has skewed his own ability to regulate his emotions as well as his understanding of what is normal. I 100%believe he needs therapy but he refuses. We have discussed this and just end up arguing because he (and his mum) say that I'm too soft so I'm now at the point of being ready to walk because I don't want my daughters growing up being physically dumped by their dad when they are just being normal babies and toddlers. If he was prepared to go to therapy to work through it I would try but he's not.

So please tell me AIBU to think that this isn't normal or okay and could potentially be damaging to them or is he right and I'm just too soft?

There's a balance between the two, there's a fair bit of projection that she's screaming in terror, also the bottles of milk, she's three but you seem to still be treating her like a toddler. He shouldn't be getting angry and definitely shouldn't shout but she does need boundaries

No 'great dad' is aggressive with an upset toddler. He is being abusive towards all of you.

He's not being at all reasonable. YANBU. It's not okay.

@MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira 3 is a toddler - she is tiny and has just started nursery and will be experiencing a huge range of scary emotions!

He's being emotionally abusive. And teaching your daughter that his love of her is conditional.

Just a warning as well that a negative change in behaviour after starting nursery may suggest that the nursery isn't right for her.

Nurseries vary hugely in how good they are.

3 is still so very little, I know grown adults who can’t regulate or manage their emotions and yet we expect small children to do it?

Shouting at her and removing comfort is not going to help, being empathetic (while also holding whatever boundary has annoyed her) is not being soft - her feelings are valid!

That's sound horrible. You're not being unreasonable at all. He needs to get some therapy to deal with the trauma he went through. He can't continue to treat his daughter like this. He's going to continue the generational abuse, not as directly physically, but emotionally. And he is being physical with her too "grabbed her from me sharply"

In your shoes, I couldn't stay with a man that treated my child like this. Options short of him dealing with his issues, or you separating would be to get him to read some books on child development to educate himself on what is healthy and normal child behaviour/parenting. Or him to just absent himself when he feels angry due to his child's emotion.

He either needs to go to anger management or parenting classes now, or leave. I know friends who have stuck with men like this and they haven't changed. They now have highly anxious children who are actually scared of their father. One friend threatened to leave and he did go to anger management and is now much better so it can be learned if you really believe deep down he's a good man who will make a good parent in the long run and he's acting through extreme stress. Every parent snaps and gets to the complete end of their tether at points..I know I have with night time wakings but this sounds like it's basically every time she cries or tantrums which is completely normal behaviour for a 3 yo. It sounds like he can't handle anything being beyond his control, which is a red flag in itself.

It sounds like you are both on either end and neither is ideal.

but I don't chastise her either because I think it's pointless.

At 3 she does need to learn that screaming, crying and tantruming isn’t tolerated and she can learn appropriate behaviour.

Again the screaming in the night can also be minimised, she might wake from a nightmare but long prolonged episodes of screaming is a bit much for a 3 year old.

You can’t expect a 3 year old to manage their emotions like an adult would 🙄

Mine started with night terrors at that age. It was exhausting but it wasn't something she could control any more than we could!

To a certain extent at this age you do have to teach kids that excessive/disproportionate emotional reactions don't achieve a lot. Removing her from stimulus by taking her out of your room when she's screaming at night isn't unreasonable, i often found mine were worse with this when i was in the room and better in their own beds.

His descriptions of what happened would probably be quite different from yours.

Some feelings should be validated but many young childrens reactions are excessive and those emotions aren't valid.

The key is staying calm and measured however and it doesn't sound like this. Is he getting enough rest himself? Can you tag team at night so you aren't both woken constantly by it?

I don’t think you’re unreasonable. He doesn’t sound very nice. But - as someone who had a similar background to your dh abuse wise I also cannot stand babies / toddlers crying. The noise seems to set something off in me. It’s a very weird feeling, it’s like the unregulated emotion seems to send me right back to being a child. I can’t really explain it. Having said that, I didn’t respond to my dc like your dh does. I just seethed internally! He needs to learn to calm down and be less angry. 3 is still very tiny.

Bless her, she just needs to feel loved and secure, that's how we teach them to manage the big 'feels'. Imaging feeling so upset, frustrated and not able to understand why and you look to your Daddy for comfort only for him to act like that.

This will only ever escalate, to the detriment of your daughter. She needs you to be very strong here becsue her father is abusive, you need to protect her.

Your assessment of the impact that your dh's upbringing has on him and that he needs therapy sounds absolutely right.

However, as you know, this is something people need to be ready and open to and he's not. Life is really, really full on with two such little ones and it's difficult to think straight or find the time and head space to talk through parenting strategies. But it does sound like you need to do this.

Taking away attention when toddlers are tantruming is a good strategy, but it needs to be done calmly and with a warning - your screaming is hurting my ears. I'm going to put you down if you carry on or something like that.

You both also need to agree a plan for the night time if your 3 year old wakes up. Could one of you go into her bedroom with her and the other have the baby? Not ideal, but getting enough sleep must be a priority.

You’re husband is completely wrong and so is his mother

what a horrible thing to do

I would point out that he is having a bigger tantrum than your child. While is to be expected fir a 3YO, it is totally unacceptable for a XX YO man.

Your poor kids. No, that's not remotely okay. You know this hence why coming here. Your poor daughter. Toddlers need support and empathy and boundaries when they're having huge feelings! Not to be told off or abandoned. It sounds like he's not too far off potentially assaulting one of them if he's so enraged and can't control his emotions.

The bedtime thing, I think he has a point. She shouldn't be coming into your bed, neither of them should (the baby it's dangerous, and for your toddler she does need to learn how to get restful sleep in her own space as it isn't fair on her to have broken sleep in the night and it will grind the two of you down if it hasn't already).

I could have wrote this myself. I have 3
Dcs and when they were at the high pitched screaming it did something to me. I had to leave the room to regulate again.

Children need their parents to help them regulate their nervous system. Your DH was failed and is failing your DC.

He needs therapy and parenting classes, immediately, this has to be non-negotiable.

It is also totally natural and normal for children to go into their parents' bedroom at night if they wake and are scared. A small child sleeping alone is a very recent and western concept.

This would upset me. DS has never had tantrums really, his odd occasions were getting upset because of being tired. We just hugged it out every time, and quickly he learned to tearfully say "cuddle" and sort it out that way instead of shouting. If you have ways of calming her, the best thing is to show him that way just works faster, so why wouldn't he use the most effective technique...? For bed sharing, set up a spare spot somewhere comfy so that everyone can shuffle round when needed without anybody left uncomfortable.

It is concerning that he doesn't seem to care about her feelings. Best addressed when times are calm, to ask if he feels he's being affected by his childhood issues when he hears crying and how he plans to avoid that. It seems odd that he wouldn't naturally go the other way and want to comfort her, but trauma can be strange.

You are right and he is wrong. He sounds horrible, but I wonder if he just had a very limited understanding of child development?

It sounds like he might really benefit from a basic parenting class, family hubs often offer them.

It's understandable that a toddler is struggling to manage her emotions. Her brain works massively differently to an adults, it's something she needs help with. Your dh, however, is plenty old enough to be expected to manage his emotions without taking them out on others.

I think it depends on the screaming. DD’s screaming was horrific, beyond tantrum and could go on for hours. I used to worry about people calling social services as quite frankly it sounded like someone was being murdered. I couldn’t cope with it and my health visitor told me to leave the room, sometimes it is the best thing. You remove the audience and it can calm the situation. What isn’t good is that you aren’t working together, you’re compensating for what you see as his coldness, so DD is dealing with two extremes. You need to agree (when calm and not in a live scenario) what you both agree on as boundaries and remedies and then implement it, and hopefully it’s somewhere in the middle that you can both cope with.