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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to worry about telling colleagues that I’m going to Israel?

444 replies

Doubtfulso · 24/09/2024 13:41

I’ve got a close friends wedding in Israel in 2 months and I am a bridesmaid. She is Israeli and so of course having her wedding in her home country.

I need to book the time off work now, and I work in the kind of company where everyone asks where you’re going or where you’ve been when you book leave.

there’s a lot of anger and strong feelings against Israel at the moment, and I’m worried that colleagues will turn against me or start treating me different when they know that I’m going to Israel.

would I be unreasonable to lie and tell them I’m going somewhere else, or should I be honest?

OP posts:
IOSTT · 24/09/2024 18:22

kirbykirby · 24/09/2024 18:11

Are people afraid to tell their colleagues when they go to Turkey (which has been genociding Kurds for years) or Morocco which is occupying Western Sahara? They are popular holiday destinations.

There have not been massive, violent UK country-wide demonstrations about these destinations though!

HowToSaveAWife · 24/09/2024 18:23

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:21

It’s an odd stance to oppose something that you explicitly admit you don’t want to learn about but each to their own I suppose.

Again with the goading. Why do you insist I need to learn anymore than I already have to form my opinion? Because I don't agree with you?

Greywhippet · 24/09/2024 18:23

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 17:53

Actually it’s important to use the term genocide correctly as it has a specific meaning. I understand, on a number of levels, why people use it about the current situation but doing so not only demeans the actuality of genocide but obscures the desire of several countries surrounding Israel to see the ultimate and complete destruction of the Jewish people.
Anyone can use the term if they want but they need to recognise that it can be harmful.

You are so disingenuous. You’ve seen and read the ruling, we all have. It’s not a bunch of randoms bandying about the term, it’s expert lawyers.
It’s not the TERM genocide that is harmful, it’s the ACT.
It’s not saying ‘this is a genocide’ when you see the attempt to wipe out an entire population, even thousands of new born babies, that is harmful. It’s the genocidal intent that is harmful.
Everyone has heard Hind Rijab’s phone call. Everyone has seen the bombing of schools and hospitals. Everyone knows these are war crimes with genocidal intent

herecomesautumn · 24/09/2024 18:23

Anyone judging you can GTF

My only worry would be for your safety from possible terrorist attacks

Go and enjoy.

Greywhippet · 24/09/2024 18:24

IOSTT · 24/09/2024 18:22

There have not been massive, violent UK country-wide demonstrations about these destinations though!

There have not been violent demonstrations. There have been peaceful demonstrations.
Don’t post lies

blackcherryconserve · 24/09/2024 18:24

IOSTT · 24/09/2024 18:22

There have not been massive, violent UK country-wide demonstrations about these destinations though!

I wonder why not? Silly me. I know the reason.

TidyOrca · 24/09/2024 18:24

IOSTT · 24/09/2024 18:22

There have not been massive, violent UK country-wide demonstrations about these destinations though!

Might that be evidence of … antisemitism? If you only care about immorality when it’s committed by Jews, you don’t care about immorality.

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JaneDoeHere · 24/09/2024 18:26

pleasehelpwi3 · 24/09/2024 17:27

I've seen it used as one on Mumsnet.
I've heard illegal West Bank settlers say that anyone who disagrees with killing Palestinian children ('future terrorists') being Hamas supporters (C4 news interviews within the last year).

No, it’s not.

HowToSaveAWife · 24/09/2024 18:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Explain how I'm racist.

TheJadePeer · 24/09/2024 18:28

Sorry OP I think people are going to judge. Not just r.e. Israel/Palestine.... But on going to an active war zone, where travel has been advised against.

What happens if you're unable to get back out, need extradition etc?

You have no choice but to be honest. Because if things go wrong, it'll come out anyway.

BTW I doubt that anybody will say anything openly to your face. You might just be quietly excluded.

Wasityoubecayse · 24/09/2024 18:28

Greywhippet · 24/09/2024 17:59

I massively judge anybody who doesn’t give a toss what is happening in that region currently. It affects everyone in the world. Toleration of war crimes means that anything goes in a conflict with no reckoning for any perpetrators. Indiscriminate killing of civilians- of any nation or ethnicity- is unacceptable. The selling of weapons to states involved in war crimes is appalling. The cycle of violence and retribution on all sides has consequences for the world for generations to come.

Who are you police peoples thoughts. Espicially when in the context to this thread the person said she is going to a wedding. Why you focus on israel is because probably from your replies you find it easier to think of israel as being uniquely evil, to the extend people from othet conturies should no longer engage in normal human interactions. The apartite comment was weak and stupid black white and asian people teavveled to the state because their family and friebds live there im getting the impression these must be bots thetes no way yoi cant inderstand this point. @ mumsnet is there a way to see if these are russian accounts. Again you would have to be not very bright to not understand why your behaviour tpwards ypur collegue wpuld be wrong. I just think this is how some bulllies bully.

OnYourTogs · 24/09/2024 18:29

JaneDoeHere · 24/09/2024 17:03

No it’s not.

Yes it is

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:29

Greywhippet · 24/09/2024 18:23

You are so disingenuous. You’ve seen and read the ruling, we all have. It’s not a bunch of randoms bandying about the term, it’s expert lawyers.
It’s not the TERM genocide that is harmful, it’s the ACT.
It’s not saying ‘this is a genocide’ when you see the attempt to wipe out an entire population, even thousands of new born babies, that is harmful. It’s the genocidal intent that is harmful.
Everyone has heard Hind Rijab’s phone call. Everyone has seen the bombing of schools and hospitals. Everyone knows these are war crimes with genocidal intent

The poster(s) above have explained more eloquently than me how it’s harmful and inaccurate to call the attacks on Gaza genocide.
I’m fully opposed to the deaths of civilians, as I expect any reasonable person to be. But why is it so important to you to describe this situation as uniquely genocidal? What about all the innocent women and children dying in the forgotten Sudanese war? Is that genocide?
My opposition is to the specific term, with its specific legal meaning being used wrongly. Because that is dangerous.

Autumnchilltime · 24/09/2024 18:30

TidyOrca · 24/09/2024 17:37

It’s slightly concerning how common the use of the word “genocide” has been here. There is not a genocide in Gaza. It is inappropriate to misuse words like that because it detracts from the horror of actual genocides. War is awful and I’m sure there is lots of suffering in Gaza. But war is not the same thing as genocide.

Couldn't agree more 👍

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:30

HowToSaveAWife · 24/09/2024 18:27

Explain how I'm racist.

Gosh do you really not know that being Jewish is an ethnicity?

erwachen · 24/09/2024 18:31

HowToSaveAWife · 24/09/2024 18:27

Explain how I'm racist.

Because you admitted that you judge anyone who thinks Israelz the world's only Jewish state, has a right to exist, including the vast majority of Jewish people. And getting incredibly aggressive towards anyone who dares ask you for clarification.

RedHotWings · 24/09/2024 18:31

Greywhippet · 24/09/2024 18:23

You are so disingenuous. You’ve seen and read the ruling, we all have. It’s not a bunch of randoms bandying about the term, it’s expert lawyers.
It’s not the TERM genocide that is harmful, it’s the ACT.
It’s not saying ‘this is a genocide’ when you see the attempt to wipe out an entire population, even thousands of new born babies, that is harmful. It’s the genocidal intent that is harmful.
Everyone has heard Hind Rijab’s phone call. Everyone has seen the bombing of schools and hospitals. Everyone knows these are war crimes with genocidal intent

  1. Schools and hospitals lose their protected status if they are used as a military base. Subject to other provisions regarding proportionality and precautionary measures, it is not evidence of any crime if such facilities are attacked.
  2. Genocidal intent has not been established
  3. The ICJ has not deemed Israel to be committing genocide.
HowToSaveAWife · 24/09/2024 18:32

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:30

Gosh do you really not know that being Jewish is an ethnicity?

Being anti Zionism is not the same as being anti semitic. HTH.

Spoonz · 24/09/2024 18:33

To those with a problem with OP visiting Israel, do you realise you are playing into the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah in their aim to delegitimise the state of Israel, the world’s only Jewish state? Hope you all enjoy your jollies to Dubai and Turkey (nothing to see there hey). Anyone visit the US during the early 2000s?

ChallahPlaiter · 24/09/2024 18:33

HowToSaveAWife · 24/09/2024 18:32

Being anti Zionism is not the same as being anti semitic. HTH.

No it doesn’t help. Would you care to expand further?

Comedycook · 24/09/2024 18:33

HowToSaveAWife · 24/09/2024 18:32

Being anti Zionism is not the same as being anti semitic. HTH.

No, it doesn't help at all.

Now ..do tell us your definition of Zionism so we can understand this comment you made ?

EI12 · 24/09/2024 18:34

Do you tell them when you have a shit? A piss? What is this silly need to report to your colleagues where you are going? Why? Why do they need to know? I don't tell my colleagues anything. And I mean anything.

Comedycook · 24/09/2024 18:34

Cross post @ChallahPlaiter !

sparklyfox · 24/09/2024 18:34

Saltedbutter · 24/09/2024 13:59

If I’m being honest I’d judge you slightly (and silently) for attending but understand your reasons. If you were going for a holiday I’d expect a much stronger reaction from your colleagues.
If anybody gives you shit, go to HR.

I'm guessing you would have a problem with visiting basically every Middle Eastern country, if you have issues with holidaying in locations with human rights abuses.