To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

Oh please stop equating us minorities to non-binary people. You are not as liberal as you think you are.

You are a bloke, yes?

The amount of people on here openly admitting they would discriminate, who are responsible for hiring in their companies, is really depressing.

As for the poster who's DH pretended to be a different gender to get an interview... there are no words.

I think you are right op, it would be a red flag for me. Someone who presents themselves with pronouns would indicate to me the importance of this thinking and that they are likely to be offended at the slightest mistake/indiscretion re pronouns (rightly or wrongly).

Yep. Nobody is saying that a non-binary person doesn't have any protections under the Equality Act at all. We all have protected characteristics. The NB identity just isn't one of them.

Honestly it would put her on the back foot and would definitely start her off with a disadvantage. I’d want to hire the best candidate so wouldn’t consciously discriminate against an nb candidate but unless she dispelled the impression at interview, I’d expect such an employee to be difficult to work with and self-obsessed. That’s quite a set back to overcome. My private opinion is that anyone choosing a non-binary identity is likely to be very shallow and stupid, or utterly naive but I don’t think I’d let those opinions cloud my staffing decisions, any more than I’d discriminate against a member of an obscure religious sect. But announcing one’s pronouns on introduction is as much of a no no as a declaration of religious faith.

yes, it would put me off in a hiring situation, in exactly the same way as if someone introduced themselves saying. "I'm Mark, and I'm vegan". My immediate reaction would be an internal eye-roll, and my second reaction would be to think that they are likely to be self-centred and difficult in the workplace.

And it would be the same if they said 'I'm mark and I'm not vegan' because it's just not relevant.

Well I would certainly let avoid hiring someone who says they’re non-binary. Such a lot of nonsense.

This!

This is what happens when people are permitted to self-identify into categories that potentially advantage them. It's an inevitability.

I think judging by the hundreds of comments here where people admit they would write off anyone who identified as NB, it's not generally an advantage.

I'm not missing a thing. You need to read the entire thread.

I advised you can mention your pronouns if you are working for a trans-friendly organisation, who won't bat an eye. Otherwise, use your judgement. If they are transphobic, don't work for them. If you aren't sure (they might just be ignorant) don't mention your pronouns.

In no case do you have to mention them.

I would bet a significant amount of money that is analysis was done on discrimination claims in the workplace a disproportionate number would be from NB and trans people. You could certainly argue that this is because people are more biased against them but I suspect it is because they are more likely to take offence at the slightest misgendering/mistake.

But parliament didn't intend gender reassignment to be a spectrum. That's why the legislation says a male person can become legally female and a female person can become legally male and does not provide a mechanism for any other option. You cannot (currently) be legally recognised as something other than male or female.

The tribunal decision is clearly wrong, and a fluke.

And as I said before, if employers pay any attention to it at all, their takeaway message is not going to be, "I should hire this non binary person if I don't want to find myself on the wrong end of a discrimination claim." It's going to be, "If I hire this non binary person then I'm going to wake up every day wondering whether today is the day I find myself on the wrong end of a discrimination claim."

Supportive of a potential employee feeling comfortable and happy in their role. I would always do some digging into any potential employer to ensure that their values and way of operating fit with mine. if the OP was having issues finding a job that fitted around caring responsibilities, I would give the same advice. Does that example make more sense?

"non-binary individuals identify as neither exclusively male nor female, or as a mix of both."

I don't identify as female. I don't identify as male.

What I am is a woman. I don't get any choice about that, and I can't change it. No one can change their sex, they are either male or female. They just are. And no amount of identifying as something else changes that.

All non binary identities say to me is an attention seeker who thinks they're totes different to all us normal boring people.

Newsflash - they're really not. Apart from being far more boring because being non binary is their whole personality.

Argue with the judge.

I sincerely hope you don't take that attitude with other people with protected characteristics. There is literally one case which involved a non-binary person and an employment tribunal and they were quite clearly treated horribly, so the risk is very low.

How would the company know if the person didn't tell them. They don't need to disclose it

It may just be there are better candidates as most employers love to tick the all inclusive box if they can.

My honest take on this is that I consider 'non-binary' people to be a bit dim. I wouldn't avoid hiring them because they're non-binary, I'd avoid hiring them because I would consider them unsuitable for a job that involved higher level thinking. It would be the same if someone said 'I'm X and and I believe in unicorns.' They could be a fantastic person but they've revealed very clearly about that they have some dodgy thinking going on.

Indeed ,the same poster has also equated non -binary people with people who are disabled and need reasonable adjustments, which as the parent of two sons with disabilities i find offensive .

Ill admit im still learning all the different angles

Their CV will be getting binned instantly if it states their gender identity or sexual orientation. We do. It doesn't even get through initial screening. It goes the same way as the ones who can't string together a sentence and ones which state Full Time Mummy as their previous job and list their toddler as a reference. (Yes this happened, no we did not interview her even for the lols, the boss put his foot down.)

People who put that information on their CV are invariably going to be pedantic, self obsessed, woke individual's who are likely to be far more trouble to employ than they are worth.

Unless an application asks for your sexuality or gender identity or it is actually relevant to the job, leave it off. No one cares! We want to know if you are qualified, experienced and why we should hire you, not your life story. Save it for your autobiography.

I'm very shocked at the responses here. My view would be it would fall under a protective characteristic. I am currently involved in recruiting new team members. Binary or non-binary would have no bearing. We assess based on skills. Ideally, I would prefer to have personal details like name and address removed.

It is wrong for someone to present themselves as something other than they are to get an interview. Thankfully, I have never experienced this. My bias would be to not to progress this candidate. Such a disingenuous character would not fit within our organisational or team culture.

I don't think that a conversation about being non binary has any place in an interview, in the same way that you wouldn't discuss your marital status, sexual orientation or religion. It's not relevant.

They need to stop making a thing of it. It's not relevant and it's possibly coming across as a bit aggressive or attention seeking. They can just be who they are without making it a thing.

As a nonbinary person who is currently working part time and job-seeking, I have not mentioned gender identity or pronouns to literally anyone unless they specifically ask. Even so, finding a job at the moment seems near-impossible. I'm living in a broadly accepting area, and job hunting in broadly accepting sectors and industries, but besides my prior work with an LGBT+ charity and a unisex name there is nothing in my CV to indicate that I am LGBT+ myself. I certainly wouldn't be bringing it up in interview, again, unless the interviewer specifically asked my pronoun preference. It's rarely relevant, and it's not worth the risk of being dismissed and looked-over.

Of course it shouldn't be such a problem, but too often I've seen my friends and community struggle because of this prejudice. Depending on the job and the environment, I'd perhaps mention it once I was safely in the role, but only if I was asked and only if I was certain it wouldn't impact my chances for career progression going forward.