Paula Vennells was back in Phase 5/6 of the Post Office Inquiry and now we're at Phase 7 - thread 5

[nauticant]

A continuation of this thread about the Post Office Inquiry:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5105378-paula-vennells-is-history-but-now-at-the-post-office-inquiry-is-fujitsu-distinguished-engineer-gareth-jenkins-thread-4

The Inquiry is at Phase 7 which is about how things stand now and looking to the future. Here's the timetable:

https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/phase-7-timetable

When the hearings are going on, live-streaming can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/featured

All of the previous hearings can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

Beer is asking what was Ben Foat up to, in terms of his grubby fingerprints turning up in many places. Read does not want to go there.

If I recall correctly, Foat is one of the "untouchables".

Oh, I'm now on the letter from the former Investigator, confirming that the investigators were paid bonuses based on how many convictions they won and how much money they got out of SPMRs.

There is an email from POL who want to shut this down. And send the investigator a response saying they can't respond because of the Inquiry and Sir Wyn.

I can't believe they are using the Inquiry and Sir Wyn to shut down any investigation into if bonuses were based on conviction rates.
Actually I can believe it, but the brazenness is astonishing.

Maybe I was wrong about Foat being an "untouchable" and perhaps got confused with Foat instead being in the "cabal".

Read being very firm in stating that he never used the term "untouchables" despite a number of people giving evidence he'd used, and possibly even coined, the term.

Nothing's changed. Post Office are in denial, they never move out of it, and when they're forced to confront reality, their automatic go-to is to cover things up. Then the cover-ups get revealed, and Post Office whines "were so sorry but rest assured we've changed".

Beer: (My paraphrase) So, why did you decide to spread Staunton's confidential note of his meeting with the subpostmaster NEDs to those mentioned in it, thus causing a huge row and sowing division all over the place?

Read: It was an accident. I never looked at the note and just forwarded it on without thinking.

Oh, it turns out that Foat was an "untouchable" after all. Along with Head of Investigations and Head of Retail, Martin Roberts.

When presented with further evidence about what Read had said, Read backtracked on his earlier evidence about being certain he'd not used the term "untouchables". This is depressing to see.

I'm finally able to dip back in and am catching up with this morning on 1.5x speed. That investigator's letter includes details of an awful, tragic case - Mr Beer doesn’t quote it but you can see it on the page. A SPM who was sentenced, given community service and died - still in disgrace - before his name could be cleared.

These people are beyond appalling. Coming back to the inquiry has really brought it all flooding back with surprising force, and I’m just a (sympathetic) spectator. For the participants it must be unimaginably terrible to see these glib weasels on the stand.

Now I understand the significance of Read leaking Staunton's note. In the resulting mess, the "untouchables" used it as a means to close down the issues raised by the subpostmaster NEDs in their meeting with Staunton, in a flurry of "take back your lies!" Thus, the leak enabled more covering-up.

You're right @Quebeccles .

Watching these POL witnesses must be incredibly hard as a SPMR.
If I was a SPMR I wouldn't be able to watch. But I have full admiration for all the SPMR, like Jo Hamilton and Seema Misra, who go everyday to watch and listen.

Their strength is admirable. But I do worry about the Inquiry sessions ending and them having to confront it being over as something to participate in but not over for them as living with the trauma.

Read thinks it was wrong for Post Office to be responsible to run the compensation schemes. That should have been done by an independent entity. And that arranging things in this way was because the Treasury wanted Post Office to "feel some of the pain". As Beer pointed out in response, this doesn't mean that Post Office's management of the schemes should have been such an enormous mess. They could have managed things better, including keeping those who'd contributed to the mess well away from the mechanisms to "solve" it.

Meeting note from the start of 2023, Post Office, the relevant government department BEIS, and UKGI attending which can be summarised as "so how can we get our money back from the subpostmasters then?"

Beer wants to know why it was said in the meeting that its difficult to do an investigation based on Horizon data and Read is in deep waffle mode to avoid answering.

One gets the impression that the parties are waiting for the current unpleasantness to blow over so that things can go back to "normal".

Read is really annoying. So much waffle - he seems to have been overcoached and tries to use his prepared answers regardless of whether they answer the questions JB actually asked.

Love it when after a mega waffle Sir Wyn has intervened several times to get him to actually answer the question.

The waffling is getting right on my nerves.

I suspect he thinks if he waffles enough, everyone will lose interest.

But he has underestimated the Inquiry, SWW, Beer, the SPMR and us!

We are here, watching and listening to everything he says. And we are not as daft as he thinks we are 😁

I am getting confused with all the different "Projects".
Project Phoenix, Project Pineapple, Project Dumpster fire

I think I'll need to make a spreadsheet with all the different project names and what they are for.

minou123, they're revisiting the correspondence between Post Office and Fujitsu over Fujitsu providing assistance in prosecutions of subpostmasters. It brings to mind that when this was originally discussed the view of the Inquiry was that it appeared to be unedifying game-playing by both of them.

Aren't all those projects sub-projects within Project Arse-Covering?

I believe Project Dumpster fire is a subsection of Project Arse-Coverimg.

However, I imagine they all fall within the overarching Project Shit Show.

Another intervention by SWW to cut through Read giving another non-answer, this time to avoid acknowledging that the investigation into Mr Jacobs would have been based on Horizon data.

I’m rather too invested in watching the spread of Mr Reads’ blush …..as his obfuscations go on and on ……

Everything is "troubling" to Nick.

Whenever Beer highlights something that is bad or is not right, ( like the appalling SPMR survey results) Nick responds with "Yes, that is troubling".

What does that mean??
Nick has been CEO for 5 years and the only thing he can say is "its troubling".
He's done nothing about it.
And he has the brass neck to want a pay rise.

Yeah it is a bit unfortunate for him that his jaw goes red when he is under pressure giving his answers.

That was in the broader context of SWW expressing frustration that Horizon not being reliable is an established fact from the High Court judgment, and he feels he's experienced continual efforts to make this inconvenient fact sort of disappear.

Oh gosh, yes, his cheeks/jaw line is getting redder and redder.