Women are encouraged to have vaginal births due to…

[Undkonm]

1. cost
2. because women are not treated like men in terms of pain management

I have read (and also strongly believe) that the nhs encourages vaginal births to save money. A consultant has recently come forward to say exactly this. It is appalling and women are still falling for the narrative that vaginal birth is the only real way to give birth.

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are huge risks with all medical intervention such a c section. But I know so many people who have ended up with an emergency c section and it’s been awful for them. In contrast, those I know (including myself) who elected a c section by choice had a peaceful and largely predictable birth.

This toxic narrative that birth is only birth if you give birth vaginally is another abuse of women. I am glad I had the insight and confidence to push for what was best for me. I know other women who desperately wanted a c section but were pushed around and didn’t get to have it elected.

When will this end? I should add that I also strongly believe women who want vaginal births should be absolutely supported but it should be an active choice to do that, not the expected ‘norm.’

Do others agree? Do you have other thoughts on this? To go one step further I think the abuse of women continues when the baby arrives with huge pressure to breast feed. Just leave women alone to make decisions that are right for THEM.

Absolutely this.

I hate these threads, why does it have to always be one thing being better than the other. What about freedom of choice because we’re all individuals and it’s not one size fits all.

After a horrendous vaginal birth, I’m having a C-section with my second. Cos my body didn’t get the memo about natural being better and that it was “designed” to do it that way the first time. Why don’t we stop shaming other women over their choices and just support them.

This. They need to triage and take a logical approach, there are far too many inductions happening IMO and most people I know who had them ended up with an emergency CS. I truly believe that my speedy natural birth was due to the sheer luck of going into labour ar 40 + 1 and avoiding an induction, plus the fact that every time I rang them they told me to stay home because “first babies take days”. Not all though! I think that speaks to the inefficiencies and the treating everyone according to bizarre rules and precedents instead of looking at what data is telling them. I was bery happy with my birth and the care I received, but sadly I’m in the minority.

Death is also normal and natural. If you were ill, wouldn't you go to the doctors/take medication/have surgery or other treatment? Mammals don't do any of these.

Made to have an induction due to age. Consultant shut me down when I asked for elective c section due to tokophobia (fear of childbirth). Daughter was back to back. Had to endure a full labour and ended up with an emergency c section. Daughter needed help and whisked off to special care. Absolutely horrific experience. They need to listen to what women want. My daughter nearly died. Had I had what I wanted lots of things could have been avoided, including severe PND as a result of birth and worrying about brain damage

@Gwenhwyfar I agree that babies' heads are large, my DD got stuck for a while but came out eventually (six hour labour). I did lose alot of blood, but didn't need a transfusion, they kept me in for extra time to rest. DS popped out in less than three hours with no issues.

I don't really agree that modern women aren't designed to have vaginal births, many can with proper care, but they're not receiving it nowadays. ELCS are certainly a good alternative, but not everyone needs one.

Wow. Praise be! As if having ‘an apron’ is a deciding factor in an intelligent women’s choice to have a vaginal birth or a c sec. Give me strength.

When the cesarean rate is above 17%, there is no positive impact on neonatal, perinatal or maternal mortality.

Continuous support and promoting active birthing techniques - by trained midwives...not just encouraging women to move but using detailed knowledge of the biomechanics of birth applied to the individual circumstances reduces length of labour and complications - improves outcomes for mothers and babies over and above cesareans.

But despite all of this evidence, we don't do this. We have to keep asking the questions as to why....

@FanofLeaves I think her point was that vaginal births don't necessarily result in negative physical consequences for the mother - although not having any continence issues might be a better example!

I just read a report that baby birth weight is hugely increasing (worldwide) but pelvis size is not. Doctors are not sure why. But this obviously means that vaginal births will become more and more difficult and dangerous for more and more labours - maybe we are evolving beyond unassisted vaginal births?

I experienced the exact opposite. Literally days ago DP and I had to birth practically alone while they prepped theater to c section me. I've found them to be scalpel happy and would much rather plan a c section or at the very least an induction that will lead to a c section than an unorganised natural labour and birth.

Both my c section and my vaginal birth were massively under medicated pain wise. Appalling care.

My vaginal birth was not an easy birth and the healing has been far better than my c section.

I don’t think this is what PP meant. A lot of people don’t have issues after birth and that is ok.

^Continuous support and promoting active birthing techniques - by trained midwives...not just encouraging women to move but using detailed knowledge of the biomechanics of birth applied to the individual circumstances reduces length of labour and complications - improves outcomes for mothers and babies over and above cesareans. *

Well said @ChateauMargaux. That's why I keep banging on about pre and postnatal care.

"as that is what our bodies are designed to do"

I think that we forget that less than our parents lifetimes ago, a lot of the people on this thread wouldn't be here, neither would their children. Giving birth is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Mammals die or their offspring die all the time at this point.,be it sheep, horses, cows, dogs, without intervention.

I believe any woman should be able to easily choose an elective c-section if that’s what she wants. Without having to jump through any hoops or be dissuaded with inaccurate and bias information. And I say this as someone who has had a very positive vaginal birth experience.

Women should be trusted to choose what happens to their own bodies. Elective c-section wasn’t the right decision for me (I did consider it in my circumstances) but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be the right choice for somebody else in the exact same situation as me- we all have different values and preferences and risks we are happy or not happy with… I find so much of the attitudes towards birth is just SO infantilising and thinks women can’t make decisions about their own bodies.

Surely that's due to the increase in overweight and obese women?

I agree OP. I had to lie to them and pretend to have tokophobia in order to get a planned C Section. And it was absolutely wonderful (the birth as opposed to the lying), own consultant, several additional scans etc.
There was no way I was going along with the “oh sorry, you’re too far along for an epidural, gas and air for you” bullshit. Fuck that. An operating theatre surrounded by medical professionals and proper recuperation in the high dependency ward being properly monitored rather than an overworked midwife seemed to be to be the best way. My opinion only. But it was fabulous.
Pushing for days in severe pain and an emergency C-section sounds horrific.

Perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick but I think ‘not having an apron’ is the least of many women’s worries in the arena of childbirth tbh.

I doubt that many of the women who had the misfortune to give birth in Nottingham, Shrewsbury and Telford, East Kent, or indeed many other failing NHS Hospital Trusts would agree with you. Unfortunately, it’s only possible to class a vaginal birth as ‘straightforward’ once it’s over, not before it happens and contrary to your opinion and evidenced by the vast sums paid in compensation, giving birth to a healthy baby without damaging the mother in the UK these days is a vanishingly rare experience. And sadly, women certainly aren’t ‘absolutely fine’ at all.

@Dymaxion Exactly, yet women are expected to work until shortly before they give birth, often receive inadequate care in hospital, and are expected to go home the next day. It makes no sense.

Congratulations and best wishes for your recovery.

This!!

After ds1 was born via c-section, everyone assumed I wanted elective c-section, which was not true. I needed to be vocal and say, please don't assume I want c-section. I want to try vbac. Few times. I personally was offered a planned c-section very early. Which I declined, until things changed and dc needed to be born via c-section.

I felt informed and listened too. I agree with @pointythings

@annaak would you mind sharing that report... I would love to read it..

I had a back to back labour too. Similar experience.

Surely that's due to the increase in overweight and obese women?

I imagine it is due to better nutrition, I was obese when I had the last and they were 7lbs, my friend at the time had an 11lbs baby and she was an ideal BMI. Her baby is now an obese teenager and mine is normal weight. I am still obese and she is still an ideal BMI, make of that what you will ?

Or the fact it’s more natural! Like breastfeeding yet hardly anyone I know wanted a vaginal birth or wanted to breastfeed!