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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

No clutching of pearls comments

100 replies

Tiredallthetimeneedsleep · 20/09/2024 19:36

Not wanting to offend
Just interested in the facts please.
Are trans women that have NOT undergone surgical ( transformation?) more likely to offend against women that were born female? Or not?
Again - not wanting to offend - just wanting hard facts. Thank you

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Countingcactus · 20/09/2024 22:16

Tiredallthetimeneedsleep · 20/09/2024 19:56

FINALLY! Thank you.

I can’t see how this has anything to do with your question?

Choochoo21 · 20/09/2024 22:19

Someone who is born male is a risk to females (yes I know not all men).

Someone who has a penis is going to be more of a physical threat to a female, than someone without one.

Someone who has a history of sexual crimes is absolutely going to be a threat to biological females.

Someone who has no history of sexual crime may or may not be a threat to females.

Someone with a penis with no history of sexual crimes in a prison full of females is unlikely to be a threat.
Chances are they will be quite popular.

Someone with a vagina in a prison full of males is likely to be a victim.

Its basically a case by case thing.
There is no way of telling if someone is a threat unless they’ve got previous history of it.

I don’t think someone with a penis should be in a female prison.
And I don’t think someone with a vagina should be in a male prison.

The issue comes when they are XXY and look female but are more biologically male or vice versa.

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 22:21

@thursdaymurderclub oh i think your whole plan was to offend someone

Really?? 🙄

StarSlinger · 20/09/2024 22:22

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 22:15

@StarSlinger He's an arsehole. Needs a bandwagon to jump on to stay current.

I've never particularly liked Ricky Gervais - always thought he was a bit of an arrogant twat tbh! - but I've got to admit that, on the subject of trans women he is absolutely spot on.
I personally don't care if he's 'jumping on a bandwagon' - he's raising awareness through the most effective medium i.e. humour

Go Ricky! 😆

Like he really gives a fuck. But no surprise that some people fall for it.

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 22:27

@StarSlinger Like he really gives a fuck. But no surprise that some people fall for it.

It doesn't matter if he cares or not; he's raising awareness.
And THAT'S the point - not whether he cares or not.

Some people can't see the importance of action

StarSlinger · 20/09/2024 22:31

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 22:27

@StarSlinger Like he really gives a fuck. But no surprise that some people fall for it.

It doesn't matter if he cares or not; he's raising awareness.
And THAT'S the point - not whether he cares or not.

Some people can't see the importance of action

Well tbh if I had a cause I'd like people to be sincere about it. Not just use it to further their career.

CLola24 · 20/09/2024 22:51

If you wanted data you could have tried Google or chat gpt. Ever heard of them?

Nice try in pretending you weren't trying to stir though 😄

TheRavenSaid · 20/09/2024 22:52

What has your thread title got to do with the subject???

timenowplease · 20/09/2024 22:53

Tiredallthetimeneedsleep · 20/09/2024 19:50

Ok to be blunt
Are born male trans women with everything intact more likely to sexually assault than trans women who have had surgery

( I was trying to not offend anyone but I don't think that's possible on here )

A huge percentage of men, 80 or 90% who identify as trans have had no surgery whatsoever and still have an intact and functioning penis so yes, they are more likely.

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 22:54

@StarSlinger Well tbh if I had a cause I'd like people to be sincere about it. Not just use it to further their career.

tbh if I had a cause I felt passionately about, I wouldn't care as long as the cause I cared about was being widely advertised in a positive way.

It's the message that counts, not the person carrying the message.

And Ricky Gervais is conveying a message in a very effective way

StarSlinger · 20/09/2024 23:11

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 22:54

@StarSlinger Well tbh if I had a cause I'd like people to be sincere about it. Not just use it to further their career.

tbh if I had a cause I felt passionately about, I wouldn't care as long as the cause I cared about was being widely advertised in a positive way.

It's the message that counts, not the person carrying the message.

And Ricky Gervais is conveying a message in a very effective way

No one takes RG seriously though. Does anyone really care what he thinks? Well maybe the desperate.

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 23:13

@StarSlinger No one takes RG seriously though. Does anyone really care what he thinks? Well maybe the desperate.

😂😂😂

Tomorrowisyesterday · 20/09/2024 23:14

StarSlinger · 20/09/2024 23:11

No one takes RG seriously though. Does anyone really care what he thinks? Well maybe the desperate.

"Maybe the desperate" 😂

Alucard55 · 20/09/2024 23:15

Tiredallthetimeneedsleep · 20/09/2024 19:50

Ok to be blunt
Are born male trans women with everything intact more likely to sexually assault than trans women who have had surgery

( I was trying to not offend anyone but I don't think that's possible on here )

So is a man with a cock more likely to be a sexual predator than a man without a cock?

OneTwoTen · 20/09/2024 23:28

It doesn't make them more likely to offend.

But identifying as a woman doesn't reduce the overall risk of them offending. The level of risk remains the same because they're still male

.

No clutching of pearls comments
Drinkdrinkduuurink · 20/09/2024 23:32

StarSlinger · 20/09/2024 23:11

No one takes RG seriously though. Does anyone really care what he thinks? Well maybe the desperate.

Does anyone care what he thinks? An awful lot more than what you think.

And comedians do tend to cover topical issues. They don't have to be out with placards such as "down with this sort of thing" for their views to have merit.

CurlewKate · 20/09/2024 23:38

@Pandasnacks "
'Rape' doesn't require a penis, women can rape men."

Legally in the UK it does. Women cannot rape men- they can sexually assault them but not rape. There have been cases when women have been convicted of being involved with a rape. But there has to be a penis doing the actual rape.

StarSlinger · 20/09/2024 23:44

Drinkdrinkduuurink · 20/09/2024 23:32

Does anyone care what he thinks? An awful lot more than what you think.

And comedians do tend to cover topical issues. They don't have to be out with placards such as "down with this sort of thing" for their views to have merit.

Comedian is a bit of a reach.

Pluvia · 21/09/2024 00:02

setmestraightplease · 20/09/2024 23:13

@StarSlinger No one takes RG seriously though. Does anyone really care what he thinks? Well maybe the desperate.

😂😂😂

Desperate to pretend that Ricky Gervais doesn't have millions of views for his shows on Netflix...

setmestraightplease · 21/09/2024 00:15

*@StarSlinger No one takes RG seriously though. Does anyone really care what he thinks? Well maybe the desperate.
@Pluvia Desperate to pretend that Ricky Gervais doesn't have millions of views for his shows on Netflix...

@Pluvia Couldn't have put it better :) x

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 21/09/2024 01:42

thursdaymurderclub · 20/09/2024 19:44

the answer is no! men offend against women, women offend against women, women offend against men...

This isn’t actually an accurate representation of the reality.

Yes, there is female on female offending, and, rarely, female on male - but the scale is absolutely minuscule compared to male on female.

98-99% of sex offences are carried out by males.

88% of victims of sex offences are female.

So males are VASTLY more likely to commit sex offences than females are.

And males “identifying as” female does absolutely nothing to lessen the risk they pose to actual females.

OP, I tend to think the “full surgery” question is a bit of a red herring, tbh.

For a start, the vast majority of trans identifying males don’t have that surgery, and retain their male genitalia.

And there have been instances of those who do go the whole hog, so to speak, nonetheless continuing to be predators: eg Matthew/Madilyn Harks is a serial sex offender who has had “the op”, but continues to sexually harass and assault the women who are unfortunate enough to be incarcerated with him. This is in Canada where absolutely any male prisoner who “identifies as” a woman can choose to be housed in a women’s prison.

Obviously not all male people are predators, but the vast majority of predators are male - which means that a significant minority of male people are predators.

The most significant risk factor is being male. And that is what we should never lose sight of when thinking about ways to mitigate risk for women and girls.

HazelPlayer · 21/09/2024 02:12

thursdaymurderclub · 20/09/2024 19:44

the answer is no! men offend against women, women offend against women, women offend against men...

That must be why almost 100% of sex crimes are done by men.

(Violent crime the same).

HazelPlayer · 21/09/2024 02:16

StarSlinger · 20/09/2024 23:44

Comedian is a bit of a reach.

Well he's managed to make a successful career across stand up, books, TV writing, film writing, TV & film acting etc. as a comedian, comedy writer and comedic actor.

And make a fortune doing so.

So, it would appear an awful lot of people don't agree with you.

(I'm not a particular fan, it just struck me as an ironic comment, given his success)

Evilartsgrad · 21/09/2024 22:14

HazelPlayer · 21/09/2024 02:16

Well he's managed to make a successful career across stand up, books, TV writing, film writing, TV & film acting etc. as a comedian, comedy writer and comedic actor.

And make a fortune doing so.

So, it would appear an awful lot of people don't agree with you.

(I'm not a particular fan, it just struck me as an ironic comment, given his success)

Edited

Millions of people voted for Donald Trump. Doesn't make him a good public servant.
Success does not equal competence.

Gingernaut · 22/09/2024 16:29

Evilartsgrad · 21/09/2024 22:14

Millions of people voted for Donald Trump. Doesn't make him a good public servant.
Success does not equal competence.

In a world where you're asking people to watch you on television, vote for you on award shows, pay to see you in live shows and pay for your DVDs and Netflix, you will, pretty soon, see how popular you are

As it is, he has sold The Office to America, earned millions from script writing, TV series, books, DVDs and earnings from Netflix, does great work for children's and animal charities, while Donald Trump is a buffoon billionaire, born into money, with family paving his way for him

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