Teachers given lie-ins and extra days off

[LaughingPig]

The Guardian is reporting today that state schools are offering perks in an attempt to attract and retain teachers. These include lie-ins, whereby teachers will start later one day a week, a day off each fortnight and even the chance to work from home.

Clearly there is an issue with getting enough high-quality teachers into the profession and keeping them there. However, I’m not sure how these initiatives will go down with taxpayers on the back of successive teachers’ strikes, schools closing for months during lockdown and now inflation-busting pay rises.

Would you be happy with your DC’s teacher arriving to school late after a relaxing lie-in or logging on from home?

YABU- teachers deserve lie-ins
YANBU- teachers should be in class teaching DC

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I genuinely think attitudes like this are holding the country back.

I'd rather see someone work hard, counter productively as so many teachers are leaving the profession, rather than try new ideas because ???? Taxpayers????

🤣🤣🤣

Why do you know where the teacher lives? And what if they just didn’t get a chance to open the curtains that day or left them closed to keep the room cool. It really isn’t any of your business.

Incidentally, wanting to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ is fucking insulting. What do you do? What about everyone who works from home, do you want to audit them too? Do you want to see a record of the hours your local GP worked? Or is this pleasure strictly reserved for teachers?

Do you think teachers rock up at 8.45?

Most teachers from survey to survey to survey reporting working at least 40 hour weeks, many far in excess. Our directed time is 1265 and then hours are worked on top to discharge duties. Because hours aren't defined it can kead to a presenteeism culture. We also don't tend to get any peace during our alleged breaks.

All part time teachers I know these days work, unpaid,on their days off.

The attitude from parents that they 'pay' teachers' wages and are entitled to then dictate XYZ about their working life is a large part of why there's a recruitment and retention issue...

It's missing the point/using 'perks' that are just a sticking plaster.
All the teachers I know who've left the profession have done so because of a combination of being little more than crowd control in too-large classes, not being able to give proper individual support or delegate to TAs because of slashed budgets, working all the hours God sends because of school inspections, running scared of simplistic and ill-informed Ofsted reports...

The state education system needs proper funding and to be run by people who understand pedagogy. Sounds simple, but clearly isn't happening just now.

I used to be a teacher and one of the biggest things that made me leave was the observations and inspections, that feeling of never feeling truly trusted.

A lie in would not have fixed that, I would have just been lying in bed awake and worrying.

Quite insulting to think something so simple would fix something so complex.

Getting value for your money is about results not ‘perceived’ hours on the job.

This is the same argument people use to complain about WFH people doing non work tasks during the 9-5 hours.

Many many jobs are results based - so if you get the job done it doesn’t matter what time you are doing it.

For example if you are being paid to answer phone between 9am and 5pm you have to sit at your desk between those hours.

But if you are being paid to build a website by Friday - it doesn’t matter if you schedule your own working hours to suit yourself.

Teaching is a bit of both those options. As long as the teacher isn’t sleeping in while they are supposed to be teaching a class, or walking out at 2pm and leaving a full class unsupervised, why would parents care where the teacher is situated for their lesson planning and marking?

It will be more of a headache for the scheduler - and getting the non classroom needs covered will take more planning but why should a teacher be seen as giving less value for money if they do the admin work from home?

Who's the OP? It sounds like a poorly written year 10 argumentative essay.

A few hours to re-balance all the underpaid overtime? The General public gets to decide?

The media reporting on this has been awful (and OP has fallen for it).

In every primary school I've worked in, teachers get 2.5 hrs/week PPA and are in class for every other minute of the week.

The only possible change primary teachers will see is that, one day a week, they may be able to stay at home and do PPA (if they have a morning slot), or leave at lunchtime (if they have an afternoon slot). Most schools already allow this and there will be absolutely zero change to the child's experience.

Secondary is a bit different because teachers there often have 'free periods' above and beyond the 2.5 hrs PPA.

However, the bigger point is that the amount of PPA is already criminally low. Imagine you work in a corporate setting where you are expected to give 20 hours of presentations and you have 2.5 hours to prepare them. You have 7.5 minutes to plan each hour of your presentation! It's barmy.

Looking forward to the "lie-ins", more MN time for me. Think how many threads I can start about the teacher recruitment crisis in that extra time....

I'll bite.

FFS, this is unbelievably goady and shows that the OP has absolutely zero idea of what being a teacher actually means.

No, I won't be 'getting a nice lie-in' when I have my non-contact time. It's called PPA time - planning, preparation and assessment time. If I choose and am able to do that in my pyjamas at home for a couple of hours before I head into work, great. It has nothing to do with you.

Most of the time, I'll do it in school anyway but as I will no doubt have to deal with a million other things or emergencies or be distracted by people needing me, working at home for 2 hours a week means I can focus and get it done effectively.

And if I choose to have a nice 'lie-in' until 8:30 thus beating the traffic once a week, great. It might mean I need to do my work along with the other 4 hours I work on a Sunday, but that's my choice - as a grown-up.

If it sounds so appealing - brilliant!! Looking forward to your application onto a teacher training course. Word of warning tho, most of what you hear from the media or other curtain-twitching neighbours is utter bollocks. HTH.

What is your profession, OP?

As a 'hard working parent' it's obvious to me how hard DDs teacher works when DD comes home being able to read better, can talk to me about world religions, tells me all about the great fire of London, is tired from learning a new sport, etc etc etc.

These things take time and planning as well as actually teaching, if part of that is made easier for the teacher by giving some flexibility then that's great 👍

You need to go back to school. You tried to deluge with maths, but you made a massive assumption. Teachers don't work to the same timetable as pupils. If they did, when would they mark the homework, do the h and safety training, discuss incidents? You are a silly Billy.

What do you suggest op?
I have 2 kids just starting on life. My first in year do. Teachers are severely overworked and underpaid. If tax payers don't want this tiny perk for teachers, we either have to pay substantially more tax so teachers are properly paid and supported, or we put up with no teachers (perhaps close down schools and forget formal education). At the moment some schools are even importing teachers with little or no DBS checks (am an immigrant and appreciate what we do for this country. At the same time I know how easy it is to get a police clearance I my country and many others without an actual check).
So am not saying you are wrong and the suggested approach will work, but would like to hear your suggestions to solve the teacher crisis.
FYI, average teacher to pupil ratio in OECD is 16. UK hass the largest aavg class size in UK in 28 compared to 20 in the EU. Luxembourg spends the most on education per student in the OECD. UK is #11

This ! Not sure if OP is on the wind up with the curtains comment

I think hardworking parents will understand that hardworking teachers aren’t automatons. Teaching is a bloody hard, underpaid and under-appreciated job. More power to them.

I work in the public sector and we can’t pay anywhere near enough to recruit and retain people. Recently a well paid role only had one decent applicant and we were tens of thousands below their expected salary. So it’s unfilled.

People do want to work in the public sector and serve communities, but you have to be creative and flexible, and meet people half way.

Lots of work by teachers already gets down at home, just outside of their normal hours. So clearly that work can be done at home. And many teachers commute long distances because they cannot afford to live nearby. A day without a commute, with a lie in, and some peace and quiet to get the work done might just be a winner for everyone and I think ideas like this should be explored.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was either professional dosser or an ex MP.

I used to hire ex-teachers. They're the employee equivalent of refugees. They were always so grateful. I had to work hard not to take advantage.

I seriously doubt you work that hard, I definitely don't.

If I were you, I'd be worrying about the excess administrative burden placed on teachers that diverts them from their core purpose. And of course the behaviour management shite they have to put up with.

Maybe this thread has caught me on a bad day. Maybe it’s caught me on a day I’m fighting a stress migraine. But anyone who is so far up their own arse that they care about if a teacher can take their planning time at home so they leave a bit earlier or get to school a bit later can quite frankly fuck off. Do one.
I can either go in at 7.00, sit in a fucking freezing cold PPA room during the winter for a morning PPA session, or maybe sit at home for a bit and then go in to print half a tree.
Maybe I can sort an appointment at the hospital during my PPA time in the afternoon because they don’t have appointments after 3 or at the weekend and I can’t wait until the holiday.
I never try to play the game of teachers work harder. It’s not the fucking point that we always fucking bang on about. Every fucking time. We don’t work harder than other people. We just work harder than fuckwits think we do.
What would make my life easier?
Bob Geldoff to go on TV and show videos of what it’s like and ask the Governent to give us the fucking money.
Not for my wages, but to buy felt tips as we haven’t been given those this year. For specialist TAs to work with the children with SEND that are being let down in mainstream schools. For shitty buildings and so teachers and TAs stop spending their own money to make the magic happen for everyone else’s children.

Jeez, the image of you checking neighbours’ curtains is chilling. Most people’s bedrooms are at the back anyway, are you planning to fly spy drones into their back gardens?

It would make absolutely no difference to pupils in secondary schools who don’t necessarily know when their teachers arrive/leave as they have different people for each subject. Anything that helps with teacher retention is a good idea.

I work at a university and today I (gasp) started work at 10am.

I'll be working until 10pm tonight of course, but so do secondary school teachers. You got a problem with me too, OP? What other profession is undeserving of the smallest amount of flexible working?

@Combattingthemoaners
Park outside any school 15 minutes after the pupils leave and you will see the car park emptying.

@Shinyandnew1
Did you bother to read the rest of my post where teachers only face pupils for around 22.5 hours. As stated that leaves 17.5 hours to lesson plan etc on a 40 hour working week.

@Secradonugh
As with combat above. The rest of us can see the car parks empty by 4pm. Perhaps we would be more inclined to believe and have sympathy if the car park was still full at 6pm.