to think that putting explosives in devices such as pagers and walkie talkies can lead to indiscriminate injuries and killings

[cakeorwine]

Let's get the first thing out of the way - it's not right to fire missiles and rockets at people - as that can cause indiscriminate injuries as well.

Putting explosives in devices such as pagers and walkie talkies - it sounds clever. Just send a signal and an explosion goes off potentially injuring and killing your opponent who has it. It will also disrupt communication methods.

But once you put the explosive in it, you lose control of where it goes and when it gets blown up. It could be a child has it. It could be on a plane - and might not be picked up by security.

You don't know where it ends up. Which means that it has the potential for unintended consequences.

What about any that didn't go off? Are there objects that have been booby trapped and are just potentially waiting to explode - and who knows where they are? The thing about booby traps is that you just don't know who will set them off.

Booby traps seem to be against the International Humanitarian Law if they can injure civillians.

Customary IHL - Rule 80. Booby-Traps (icrc.org)

Then you need your morals reassessing. Only 8 Hezbollah members killed. 6 civilians killed including 4 children. Over 3000 people injured. I know a lovely lady (related to a friend) who had her arm amputated yesterday, because she was standing near one in a grocery shop when it went off.

I wonder if the US did this to their neo Nazis, killing only 8 targets and injuring 3000 people, would you be so unfeeling.

But they're only Arabs, so who cares, really. Not 43% of Mumsnet, it seems.

Like in Gaza? And let's not forget the deliberate starvation/ denial of the basics to sustain life, the Israeli government are more than willing to use as weapons of war. But, of course, they do care about innocent dying.

Lol as opposed to hezbollah which is an terrorist iranian proxy impoverishing it’s own country and was rented out to assad to kill syrians. Yup thats right totally rogue state 🙄.

Maybe this is the missing piece of info that sparked the thread

Yes op they did know they would end up with that group

Why?

They basically made a small bomb. They sent a signal to explode it, without warning, and assumed that it would target terrorists - who would be most likely to be the ones holding it.

They couldn't guarantee that. They couldn't guarantee that the explosion wouldn't hurt anyone else. They couldn't guarantee that the location of the explosion would not cause any other issues.

Could they guarantee that when they exploded, that no civillian would be harmed?

Could they guarantee that the location of the explosion would not cause any other issues?

Can’t find any court reports on this? It appears you are making allegations then refusing to back them up.

Funny how you are calling anyone who supports Israel’s right to defend itself (which does not mean necessarily I am pro the Israeli government) ‘inhuman’. Giving away how you really feel about Jews and those who support their right to exist there.

Peoplelike you keep using the word ‘genocide’ despite there being no finding of this. It appears you’re not so concerned with international law. But very confident to start labelling others ‘Inhuman’.

I assume you couldn’t care less about the pogroms and genocide of Jews throughout history but you might do well to read up on ‘blood libel’ and how propoganda has been used for millenia to dehumanise Jewish people to justify their eradication. You probably can’t make the connection, but it starts from places like the one you come from; where you say anyone who supports Israel’s right to defend itself and right to exist must not be human and therefore it makes it easier to justify such people’s eradication. This dance is not a new one, and you’ve fallen for it hook line and sinker.

I wonder if the US did this to their neo Nazis, killing only 8 targets and injuring 3000 people, would you be so unfeeling.

Sounds proportionate if the US was under attack. I recall 3,000 people were killed in the US recently.

They’re pagers specifically for top secret communications between high ranking members of a terrorist group. A terrorist group who has been firing rockets indiscriminately at Israel for decades. It’s not like they put explosives in random devices.

some people are determined to criticise Israel no matter what. You have to wonder why. There is absolutely no way they would stand for the terrorism that Israelis have to deal with on a daily basis.

And you expected them to use 5000 rockets instead to get those comms units. How would they have achieved the same results without way more damage? Look at the videos. You keep being told that the explosions are so tiny they don’t project very far at all. But you seem to be ignoring that. A rocket would be a million times worse.

I don’t understand how in a conflict you expect zero civilian casualties. The reason posters here are saying this was extraordinary is precisely because of the extremely low collateral damage. They weren’t trying to kill them, they were trying to make it very difficult for hezb members to communicate.

Exactly. Jews are up against it every day and have been for centuries. People like @cakeorwine do not take that into context. These days it all has to be sorted out through polarisation. Which is exactly why they started this thread out.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/30/idf-charges-reservist-with-aggravated-abuse-of-palestinian-prisoners

"Israel’s military has charged a reservist with aggravated abuse of Palestinian prisoners, a spokesperson said on Tuesday, as nine other soldiers appeared in military court for an initial hearing over allegations they had sexually abused a detainee from Gaza."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-idf-palestinian-prisoner-alleged-rape-sde-teinman-abuse-protest/

"The soldiers suspected of the abuse have been held for questioning, which is rare in Israel during an ongoing conflict, and it has drawn a furious reaction from far-right Israelis, including some senior government officials. On Monday evening, a group of Israelis attempted to storm another military facility, with one protester threatening an uprising against the government if the suspects remain in custody.
...
A member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party, speaking Monday at a meeting of lawmakers, justified the rape and abuse of Palestinian prisoners, shouting angrily at colleagues questioning the alleged behavior that anything was legitimate to do to "terrorists" in custody."

You've posted you prefer bombings.

It really is odd

This is so messed up I don’t know where to begin. Now all of us know ths Israeli government can plant bombs in small devices of groups it’s against. Why would anybody buy any device with parts manufactured in Israel in case they became an accidental victim? This is very scary.

“You have to wonder why”

No you don’t. The UN estimates the state of Israel has murdered 15,000 kids over the past year in Gaza. I criticise Israel for that.

Am I wrong to criticise Israel for that ?

Fifteen. Thousand. Dead. Children.

But would you wipe out his entire family/friends, destroy his home and so on?
Would you?

No I haven't.

I am saying that with these attacks, you don't know the situation when the pager explodes.

You can never guarantee that no civilians would be killed in a war especially against terrorism. But you can’t simply not defend yourself on that basis just in case.

There is absolutely no other country in the whole world that people demand that of. None but Israel who are supposed to just put up with violent attack after violent attack.

Amazing, you can lob rockets at a country for almost a year and yet not be at war with them. Schrödingers war.

I am Jewish. You are embarrasing yourself.

How would you like Israel to defend itself against hezbollah then? Or should they just put up with being bombed over and over?

The blasts were not small they were tiny which is the reason most of these people survived. there you go, theres a video

m.youtube.com/watch?v=AI5xT0F8qRQ

She’s really not and I don’t believe you. You’re making things up about rape. You’re the one who should be embarrassed

Do you honestly think Israeli solders haven't raped anyone?

This was your post

Good question - to a degree, you can at least see your target and you actively make the decision to release it knowing the situation on the ground at the time.