To think DH should suck his boring job up...

[BlackBean2023]

I was going to Nc for this but it might sound trolly so I haven't...

DH and I met young, married young (under 25) and have been together 20 years this year. 2 kids - one late teens and one a bit younger. In the early years of our relationship, I worked as a receptionist and he worked as a mechanic. I completed a degree and postgrad qualification a few years back and now work in a senior position - salary isn't particularly important to this but as a marker I now earn more than double DH's gross salary.

DH works in a different blue collar profession now and is bored. Lately, he has talked about giving this job up to go self-employed as a 'Man With a Van' type set up. I have vetoed this - I don't think he can earn a decent wage will end up working more hours for far less money and I know that I will then need to pick up even more life/child admin/care than I already do (I do 80% of this already on top of a full time job). Everything else I suggest career wise he doesn't want to do (nothing physical, nothing office based, nothing that requires going back to retraining)- he just wants to work for himself driving a van... He is relying on my salary being enough to cover any loss of income on his part - which it is but will mean no holidays/expensive treats. I know the days he'd have no work (of which there would be many!) would be spent on his XBox.

AIBU to think that giving up a job and stable income (£40k a year) because you're bored is reckless? There's no mental health concerns beyond being bored.

I am not willing to work 60 hour weeks, plus pick up the majority of childcare/housework etc so I can earn enough for two of us whilst one 'partner' dosses but I am aware that if you reversed the genders it might read differently. It's driven a massive wedge into our marriage - I am pushed almost to the point of wanting to leave him because his lack of work ethic is unattractive. I work with driven people day in day out and that is only highlighting his complete lack of ambition and I'm seriously becoming quite bitter about the whole thing.

Tell me IABU please MN

I'd seriously reconsider the relationship. He's used to your higher wage and doing fuck all at home, so thinks he'll work part-time and have a lot more time for himself at your expense.

I'd separate while he's still on that salary - it'll be a hell of a lot more expensive afterwards.

I think you are both unreasonable.

You can't just veto your husband's career choices and he needs to be a bit more flexible about what he wants to.

If he likes driving he has many options:

• taxi driver
• bus driver
• delivery driver
• train driver
• get the proper licence and become a long-haul driver.

The above are perfectly decent jobs and would get him out of being stuck in an office.

YANBU for wanting him to have an income and worry about the affordability of going self-employed.

It is slightly unfair though to ‘blame’ him for a lack of work ethic. He’s stayed the same and you’ve changed. That’s not his fault.

Why on earth are you doing 80% of the domestic work when you work very long hours and earn twice what he does? Everything about his behaviour is unreasonable.

Can he not go do supermarket deliveries, then he’s a man with a van with a job

YANBU. Man with a van jobs will be physical surely? Picking up sofas etc so it doesn't even stack up with what he wants to do. It is also likely to be at least some weekend work, he needs to buy a van to set up so there's that, insurance and fuel to take into account. Holiday/sick pay - non existent. If he was going to do it around primary school DC and pick up the majority of childcare and house work etc that would be a different thing.

All the men I know who are self employed are incredibly stressed and/or earning very little. My DP is self employed in a physical job and earns probably around £40K but has cashflow issues, no pension and often works 7 days per week with very little holiday. He is, at least, doing something outdoors that is good for his MH and that he enjoys and is interested in.

And I suspect you’ll be doing more than 20% of housework/childcare that OP’s husband is doing!

OP - if you are earning the majority of the household income AND doing the majority on the home front then your current set-up is not equitable - never mind your husband’s proposal.

Every adult in a household should be an equal partner. The gender reversal argument is just used to try and shut women down.

Nothing wrong with being bored in a reasonably well paid job. If he has time on his hands there are plenty of domestic jobs to do. The man with a van is the male equivalent of opening a horse box coffee stall. It's a saturated market to be blunt.

I'd be seriously fucked off op. £40k job and he wants to be a white van man because he's bored? Are you sure he's not joking?

He's definitely being unreasonable, the question is though do you truly want to save your marriage or are you half out the door?

If you are half out the door (as you might be doing 80% of everything in the household and working long full-time hours) then in a way, it doesn't matter what he does next. He's the lower earner AND the lazier one in the house, you can't be both without starting to encroach on the wellbeing of the other partner.

If you are keen to make it work (still fancy him, still want to remain a family unit), don't try to problem solve with him, he just rejects your ideas, I would go through the finances together and work out how much you need to live on per week and what his contribution would be- and listen to his 'dreams' of the white van (annoying but do listen, as if you shut it all down, he's going to remain fixed in his position).

I do know couples where the load, both financial and in the house, is quite uneven and they are happy with it, and where they are not happy with it. I don't think it's unreasonable to find the 'deal' he's offering unpalatable, but it may be despite all that you want to remain in the marriage and so if that's the case, you need to find a way to talk without you getting cross and without him getting on the defensive- more of an ideas pitch than an argument about your respective positions in life.

He should be doing more at home full stop, as you are both working right now, so him stepping up for that is necessary anyway.

I have lots of my friends who have never really worked.They have had one or two children and relied on their husbands to earn the dosh.They have had play jobs, making jewellery. selling things on Etsy but there is a very obvious subtext that women do their bit having children and the rest of their life off. I have always worked. Retired from full time work at 65, then childcare for grandchildren four days a week and still manage a small part time job in my former career. I am mid seventies now.
I am scared of not working and doing my bit and I feel bemused by women who use the excuse of having had a baby forty odd years ago as a reason for not working. There are a lot of them. Many look after their own parents, using their husbands money to support themselves.
The growing numbers of economically inactive who honestly think it is their human right not to work seems wrong to me.

@Feedable I know what you mean, but in my experience, the women who stay home and don't work do the bulk of the childcare and the bulk of the household management, including when the children become teens and then students. You might not think it takes a whole person to do that, but they tend to be doing everything household (wifework) and child related. I think it's fine if the effort by both is equal, but with different tasks, and agreed by everyone. The Op doesn't agree this is a fair distribution though, and I agree.

I get why you're stressed but tell him he needs 20 year plan to retirement.

Man with a van only works for about another 5 or max 8 years before physically that's not going to be possible for him anymore.

Does he have a long term strategy?

Until he has, it's not an option.

Is there a way he can give this a go without completely without putting your family finances and relationship in jeopardy? Could he reduce his hours to 0.6 and then have a stab at the ‘van’ business for say 9 months to see how it goes? That would leave him 4 free days a week to build up his business. If it turns out the grass isn’t greener on the other side then he can return to FT work.

I understand why you wouldn’t want to tread on his dreams but it sounds like he hadn’t really thought it through.

It may be that his plan is not great, and in that case it's not unreasonable to oppose it.

But if the man's bored and unhappy in his job, it is unreasonable to tell him that that's just his life and he's stuck with it. You ought to be contributing to helping him out of that situation.

And neither of those things really touch on the separate problem that your worldview - ambitious, high-achieving and all that commendable stuff - makes it difficult for you to put up with his worldview - unambitious, not-at-all-driven and all that stuff which is only alright if you're not expected to contribute to a family.

It doesn't sound to me as if you think he'll make a go of being his own boss - and you're probably in the best place to make that call. But if he thinks that being his own boss is the only way he can escape being bored and unhappy in his present job, then you're at an impasse.

Thing is, if someone really wants to be their own boss, they'll find a way to do it, whatever it takes.

I think I'd say to him, "If over the next twelve months you can make as much money with a van as you currently make working - but without giving up the current job - then you can give up the current job."

To which he will say, "What? I have to do two jobs for a year?"

To which you say, "Well, yeah. It's hard work building a business."

Are you happy? Is your H? I feel like you may be but he isn't and don't understand why it's necessary to say your H is blue colour and that you're earning more than double his money. My H does a manual job and I love and respect him for doing it. He is also a brilliant father and grandfather. No way would I demean my H for doing a manual job while I did a white colour one. I would have an open and honest conversation between the two of you. You might find your H has a different perspective. I hope you find a way forward that suits your family

Could I just point out that becoming a train driver does demand a lot of training (!). It's not just a matter of hopping in and starting the engine and off you go.

@Onwardsandsidewaysyetagain In my experience, women may manage the domestic side of things (or not) but many men do the financial side of housekeeping and the DIY stuff.I know a lot of older women who do pilates, choir, coffee with friends and some are highly indignant when their husbands dare to retire and intrude on their happy life. I think I am right in saying that statistically men retire later and at at an older age than women.
Someone has to financially support the economically inactive women and, statistically, there are a lot more women in this bracket of economically inactive than men.

Really? Retirement ages are now the same for men and women. I, a woman, do all the finances and, having worked in financial services, it was mostly women in my experience from 1980s to 2020s who did the finances. I can say my Gran (born 1913) and my Grandad (born 1916) had somewhat of the arrangement you describe although my Gran did work outside the home. My Gran and Grandad were born over 100 years ago, and your descriptions of male and female roles may have evolved since then. Your descriptions of ladies doing choir practice, pilates and coffee mornings sound quite angry towards their Hs tbh for reasons that are not apparent

How is any of this weird faux sociology of other women’s work histories relevant to this thread. This man is not a househusband and not doing the unpaid child and eldercare work that women historically have done.

Well it isn't faux because it describes my Gran and Grandfather's arrangements, and it isn't weird. It is saying people in modern times have different domestic arrangements from the times of my late Grandparents. Women are not just taking pilates classes and having coffee and expecting their H to bring in the money, take all financial decisions and do all the DIY. In modern times, women do these things too

Slightly off topic here but do you mind saying what you did, what you now do and how you found the retraining? Thank you

The only men I know who were self employed van men that earned ok were out of the house 14hr+ hours a day. The salaries were nowhere near 40k though. He's dreaming.

Unfortunately it sounds like you've grown in different directions. You've got a taste for the good money driven world (nothing wrong with this at all) and he wants to have an easier life and coast. However in this easier life he hasn't offered to pick up any of the life admin and chores.

I do have to ask though how were the finances when you were doing the studying, did he financially support the household. If he did then you may be a little unreasonable to do the same whilst he tries a different venture. If he has a solid plan for how he is going to do it then that's certainly different than what you portray.

YANBU to veto the man with the van business idea, unless he is going to be a CEO with several men & vans working for his business. I agree at 40+ he is too old to embark on a second career that is physically demanding and destroying.

YABU to tell him to suck it up and stay miserable in his current job. It is equivalent to if he had told you to suck it up and stay a receptionist because it’s a steady income and you’d have more time for the children and going to Uni is too expensive. He supported you to get out of being a receptionist- you could not have done it without him doing his boring, soul sucking good salary job.

He just wants his turn at being supported into a new career that he enjoys. I don’t agree he has poor work ethic and plans to coast and has zero ambition. It takes alot of ambition to make the jump to self employed. I would not give up and keep working with him to find something that ticks the boxes of something he’d like to do, potential for good income and feasible given the skills and experience he does have.

Perhaps he could be a recovery driver? That is sort of being a mobile mechanic. All he’d have to do is learn to drive a tow truck.

Surely to start a new business, you don’t just leave a job and go into nothing - unless you are cast iron sure that it will work within a set timeframe or have other streams of income.

A more sensible and measured approach would be to start acting as a ‘courier’ using his current car. And for him to do this at weekends/evenings to test the market and gauge response. He could get himself onto certain websites to advertise. And then use this money to save up and buy a van. He’d get a realistic understanding of how hard it is and the amount of effort involved. If it takes off and work starts coming in, he could drop a day at work and start doing this one day a week. Build it up some more and drop a further day etc until he is in a position to work for himself full-time.

if he takes an approach like this, I suspect her may decide his boring office job wasn’t that bad after all.