To ask if savings are shared when you share finances otherwise

[doodlydooo]

EDIT: Title should read "To ask if savings are shared when you share finances"

I am a SAHM following birth of DC (who is 1.5years) ie. I have not been working for 1.5 years (I received SMP only). Have been married 4 years. DH's salary comes into joint account. We have a joint savings account from which money is transferred from the joint account. This joint account was set up when DC was born. Before that the money I earned went into my account and the money DH earned went into his. DH has savings of £250k (from before we married) and it is understood that this is essentially a deposit for our future home. I had very minimal savings when we married and that is really all gone now (mostly spent on wedding). I have always been a much lower earner than DH. I went through an academic route and only really started making £30+k after the age of 30 (I am now 34). DH has a city job and is 10 years older than me.

Tonight DH mentioned he was setting up a premium bonds account to transfer some of his savings. After clarifying which savings he meant (he meant his savings before marriage) I said, isn't that something we should discuss together? He said, ok, I'm putting some of my savings into a premium bond account. Is it unreasonable of me to think I should have a say in what happens to the savings? Up until tonight I was under the impression I should as I assumed that's what joint finances are.

Thanks in advance.

All our money is shared money, go back to work and he can pay nurseries fees instead of paying into his savings.

my DH brings home the same money as me in 7 days to my monthly salary. I have an employers pension and DH pays a bit extra into another for me, aswell as his own. I work term time and do the majority of the admin and children’s clubs etc…. Especially when he’s working away. I enable him to work the BIG job.

do you know how much he’s got squirrelled away or is it a secret?

We share all money even though DH earns twice what I do. We move it around between us to maximise tax savings and high interest rates. Most accounts are in our individual names, but the money in them belongs to both of us.

DH and i used to earn equally, we had no savings when we got to get her at uni.

He now earns significantly more than me but everything we earn between us is put into a joint account. From there some goes into a shared savings account and some, equal amounts, goes into our individual ISA as our own savings

Do you have a joint savings account from your time together?
Do you have access to all the accounts (excluding his pre marriage savings)?
Are you expected to pass everything by him if you want to buy anything?

I've never felt financially vulnerable, any big purchases ie cars furniture are discussed and we discuss moving 'our money ' around (we are not talking wages,/savings anywhere near your figures).

If those savings are agreed to be for a home, I'd take those out of the equation, but have a chat with your DH. Feeling vulnerable in ANY way within a marriage isn't a healthy place to be, you need some reassurance that you are in a healthy relationship.

It would be tax efficient to get some of the money into your name.
BUT that is a significant chunk of money from pre marriage. Are you actually saving money currently? I think I'd forget about the 250k, but get a decent chunk of the current savings into an account in your name - say 75% of it.

You are vulnerable through your own choices, you've married an older, high earner and beame a stay at home mum, you should absolutely go back to work given how you feel. You'd be entitled to some of that money if you split, but actually it's his that he's earned before meeting you, and his salary goes into a joint account. It's up to him how he saves it. It's not even like he's wasting it on himself while you struggle with separate finances. He's being transparent about what he's doing with the money which is sensible.

I think this is more complex than other posters are implying.

Is your DH keen for you to be a SAHM? Have you made the decision to be a SAHM based on the fact that you view your family's finances as healthy enough to support you staying at home? Was the £250k a large part of this reasoning?

Sadly I think this is a tale as old as time where a younger woman has a family with an older, wealthier man. The man has obviously had time to accrue more financial resources and build a better career because he has a ten year advantage on the woman. Unsurprisingly the baby comes along and the man is often keen that the woman takes the career hit to look after the child because it makes most financial sense if you look at the family's finances and earning potential. This is true to some extent of all finances were truly merged forever but even at this point, OP's DH is letting her know that he doesn't actually see all of his assets as being joint.

OP, posters on MN will love banging on about it being his money but you must remember that you have not had the opportunity to build up such a nest egg due to the age difference in the relationship. Having a baby now will be a huge barrier towards you achieving the same as him, even if you earned the same money and went back to work. Think long and hard about the best way to proceed that financially protects you. You are operating at a significant financial disadvantage and this will only get worse if you stay a SAHM. I say this as someone that generally is pro SAHPs on the right circumstances but this scenario sounds very risky indeed for you.

I don't think any savings he had before marriage are yours to have a say on. If you feel vulnerable because you don't have more savings then perhaps you should return to work.

@doodlydooo you lost me when you said he had savings of £250k and said that was a deposit for your future home!!! why are you living in a rental with that kind of money saved up??????

This

so you are not even earning, all money that he earns goes into a joint account to which you have full access and you are upset that he wants to invest his own money (which is earmarked as a deposit for your joint home). Really? I am in a financially abusive and difficult situation myself but this ain't. You sound like a right princess.

If you feel financially vulnerable, go and get a job and earn your own money. Being financially dependent just isn't for everyone.

Absolutely. Worth making sure though.

DP and I share finances in the sense we split cost of everything as we roughly earn the same, but I definitely consider my savings mine. His attitude to money is more "spend what you have, might get hit by a bus tomorrow" whereas I have always been much more cautious, so its in my interest to protect my savings.

I have invested my savings and I do use the interest / profits / any premium bond wins for the good of the family e.g. if there is a repair bill one month then I'll use the premium bond win to pay as I'm happy to, or I'll treat us to a meal out or something like that. I protect the lump sum and very much consider that mine, but I'm happy to share the money that it makes.

I personally view assets (including cash savings) that existed pre-marriage should be seen as separate from marital assets.

I have no idea what the law says on that though.

I'm also confused about the wider question of why you don't own a home or when you plan to do that?

I was just about to say this. Unfortunately, whatever he says and no matter what conversations you have to make you feel better, you are no more secure. He has lots of money and earns well, you don’t and it’s worse now because you’ve given up work to take care of you DC. You are married so that gives you some protection but doesn’t stop him from going and spending all his money on something he fancies. I’m afraid you need to get comfortable with it or go out and get a job which pays well.

on this specific point, if he was thinking of spending the money (as in a lot of it), I’d expect to be part of the discussion. Moving it to another savings account is not a big decision and it wouldn’t bother me if he’d decided to do it unilaterally. He's let you know and you have an option to chime in with an alternative suggestion if you wish. I wouldn’t expect a full on consultation about this.

I think you take him at his word.
He sees it as his money.
How is he about money generally?
Do you feel able to spend without worrying about it?
This is important.
Does he share the work load when at home or do you do everything in the house and for childcare?

You need to listen to your gut.
You feel financially vulnerable.
Time to job hunt.
The cost of childcare will be a family cost, not just yours, remember that.
Some men make it very difficult for women to return to work because it suits them to have a stay at home wife.
If he refuses to pay then you know that your relationship is controlling.

Men that prevent women from returning to work by controlling money.
That is both financial abuse and coercive control.
He may have been making a wise investment but he chose to make the distinction when you asked,
Listen to your gut on what it means.

I certainly wouldn't be having another child if you feel even slightly vulnerable.

We do share our savings, but we have separate bank accounts.
Each couple is different.
I do not think I would be upset. He works in the City, so presumably he knows what he is doing, he told you and is only part of the savings. I would want to know that he is not gambling it, but otherwise, if I trust his judgement, I would not oppose. At least you have some other plans for it at present? Like moving houses or need a new car?

DH and I share savings and finances m, which was the original question. I had significantly higher savings at the start of of the marriage which were in an account in my name before we met and stayed there until we bought our first house. Now we have premium bonds in both our names.

What is the size of your joint savings? He has more than he can invest in premium bonds (max 50k). So perhaps you could put some in your name from the joint savings.

I have read the rest of your posts now LOL
As it was spoken for for a house, is this investment short time? Will the money be accessible for when you want to buy? Have you asked him this?
I can see how you fell vulnerable and fully dependant if the plan was to use the money for a house and he is changing it without previous discussion. Maybe he has a new improved plan, but he needs to share that with you.
And I think it is better for you to return to work. You will be in control of your finances and investing in your future.
I love staying home with the children, but in the current society, the truth is that the world is built for two earners. Everything is expensive and unforgiven. If he falls ill or is unemployed for a while, you will have to take the main earner spot.

I'm a sahm and I wouldn't have been concerned about DH putting money unto PBs. We view all our money as shared, and never talk in terms of my/your money, or keep tabs on who has paid or say one of us owes the other money. It's all one big pot so it doesn't matter. But it is kept in various accounts, and most of it is in individual names not joint. For us that's an admin thing and makes most sense from a tax point of view.

DH has always been a much higher earner and has significant money from before we met, but that doesn't matter. What's his is ours and what's mine is ours, and all of it is for the benefit of the family unit and the future of our dc. Although we don't necessarily discuss investment decisions or large financial purchases. We are both pretty sensible and each of us has some complexity with finances that is different, so I trust his decisions for his own circumstances as he researches it well and is sensible, and so am I.

That's because you are.

The only way to be less vulnerable is to start working again.

Are you getting a pension paid into, topping up NI credits etc?

I think a lot of people are responding from a view of one party not having accrued £250k and one £0 before they got together. That is huge, and I think is his. When I go divorced, only assets accrued after we lived together were considered.

If you feel vulnerable, then get a job and put your child in childcare.

You should definitely have him paying into a pension for you OP. (I actually think being a SAHM is making you very vulnerable and unless he shows he is willing to lessen that by putting 50-% of savings post marriage in your name and give you a pension, you should go back to work. But this is a divisive topic on MN.)

That doesn’t change my view on these savings being his but I would worry about what have means for your ownership of the house when you buy it - he may look to ringfence the 250k or take a greater % (or all?) of the ownership of the house.

We have one joint savings account. Occasionally over the years both our parents have given us sums of money and it a goes into that account which we then use for any large purchases like house renovations. Neither of us see any of it as his or mine.

Having said that DH can't actually access it because he never set up online banking to that account and can't be arsed now so technically I could run away with it. Not planning to.

I have read numerous thread here about all sorts - family finances. The case is in the marriage the less earning ( or non earning ) partner either gets what they are given, either noting ever changes ( apart from divorce). Pick your battles wisely