To pull DD out of drama group

[Hmmmmnotconvinced]

DD (6) has recently auditioned for a local panto am-dram village hall type thing.

A few of her mates are doing it with her.

The lady running it from the start has had a slightly chaotic communication style, for example sending me messages full of random information in response to my simple questions about which part my DD had been given, like names and surnames of all of the kids who’d been given main parts (kids I didn’t know). Also forgetting to add various parents to the Panto watsapp group and expecting other members to relay information.

In the audition, the kids were given scripts full of dense text they’d never seen before and were literally sung at by the adults auditioning them with no context, just sung at.

They weren’t given any direction about what to do so obviously just stood there!

There was one part where the ladies auditioning the kids snatched their scripts out of their hands having just given them to them and said “you don’t need this now do you?” At one point they started dancing quite a complicated piece of choreography and shouted “come on, join in”, but hadn’t broken the steps down in to small chunks to teach them, so the girls were a bit taken aback.

The husband of the lady auditioning the children sort of laughed at how motionless the kids were but I completely understood the kids reaction as they weren’t being dealt with in an age appropriate way which would bring out the best in them.

Late one Saturday night before a 2nd audition that the children were invited to attend the morning after, the parents were emailed an amended script for the children to familiarise themselves with (it was bedtime at this point so no way my DD could have scrolled for ages at the large amounts of text despite being a great reader!)

At the 2nd audition the ladies auditioning the 6 year olds were asking them if they would be free for a few hours every Sunday in November and December Again, the kids didn’t know what to say as they don’t organise their schedules and know when they’ll be available in November!

A few weeks went past and we had heard nothing from the audition. I eventually text the lady running it and asked if my DD had been given a part and she said yes and told me that I should have known that. I asked if I’d missed an email but she didn’t reply.

Yesterday the children went to the first rehearsal. One of the children’s grandparents stayed for the duration of the rehearsal while we were told in the group watsapp to collect the children at 3pm.

At half past 2 DH and I received missed calls from the father of one of DD’s friends and when we called back he said that the rehearsal was over and that my DD, her friend and their other friend had been taken to the park nearby with DDs friend’s grandmother because the rehearsal finished sooner than they expected.

I work in education and my safeguarding alarm bells were ringing off the wall!
why had DD and her friend been given to their other friend’s grandmother to hold on to?

I sent the lady running the pantomime a screen shot of the time she’d sent me saying 3pm pick up and asked that she send us a schedule in future of rehearsal times to help us plan. she just casually said that the rehearsal had come to an end quicker than they thought it would. In my mind they should have called me at this point, not allowed my DD to be taken to a park with a random old lady in the rain!

When DD returned home, I asked how the rehearsal went and she said that in all of the hours she was there, her and her friends just had 3 minutes worth of doing anything and the rest was just sitting there doing nothing.

I asked DD if she wanted to quit and she said no because she likes seeing her friends and she wants to be on stage again (she’s been in a very professionally run production and has loved it. This is the first ropey one) I think I need to pull her out of it now because I don’t feel that proper safeguarding is understood by any of the adult members.

The tricky thing is that one of my friends is on the committee of adults running it, and she tends to get really angry if people quit when she’s worked hard to organise something creatively which I understand so think it’ll be better for DD to quit now rather than further down the line. I also just don’t feel they understand that children aged 6 need to be occupied!

AIBU?

Feel free to volunteer to help them with their admin and planning.

Is your daughter enjoying it? If yes, persist. If no, take her out. Your loyalty is for her.

Doesn’t sound age appropriate, safe or professional, I’d take her out. Wouldn’t care about upsetting a friend, DD comes first.

It sounds like it’s ran by volunteers. It’s Am-dram, if she’s enjoying it just go with the flow.

I’m sure they’ll welcome you with open arms if you wanted to help out with organising.

I was in a local panto group like this when I was about 8 or 9. Looking back now it couldn't be further away from the likes of Stagecoach or PQA which are (ridiculously) expensive and seem to have taken over from these local groups.

I wouldn't send my now 6 year old to that type of group as I think it's probably s bit young to voice being uncomfortable or not understanding something. If it's volunteer run and only charging a few £ for hall hire etc then, as others have said, you could always offer to help out.

Allowing your Dd to leave with a stranger is totally wrong on many levels. They have a responsibility to safeguard all the kids during rehearsal and the performance. These arrangements should have been agreed with the parents including what would happen if the rehearsal was cut short. Both our kids were part of an amateur dramatic society for years and there was a record of contact details and names ticked off as they are picked up. All adults were DBS checked and chaperones assigned for the different genders.
It doesn't sound like much teaching will be happening in this group and that could have a detrimental effect on your DD. No child aged 6 should be expected to just jump into choreography or given an evening to learn lines. This unrealistic expectations will eventually cause her to lose confidence when she can't keep up. It sounds more like the kids are just there as walking props for the adults show. Id look for a better drama group or school that she can thrive in and make meaningful contributions to.

It doesn't sound like a suitable environment for primary-aged children. Volunteer-run or not safeguarding procedures need to apply.

The lack of admin, while understandable to an extent if it's voluntary, is just going to make it all stressful. My DC take part in shows through their drama club which is a bit more organised than am-dram and there are still loads of schedule changes and last-minute costumes needed.

It also doesn't sound like they know how to manage young children if they aren't giving them audition materials or teaching them dances etc. I'd wait until your DC is older and maybe consider joining a theatre school.

I would

A/ volunteer
or
B/ sign kid out

Doesn’t matter if it’s volunteers, you’d hope they’d have some semblance of safeguarding, some understanding of children’s needs (not having them sit around for hours, not thrusting a script and dance at kids who have literally just learnt to read 😅), DBS checks. Surely that’s required? I’d hope so.

I’d pull her out because of the chaotic communication let alone the rest 😅 maybe I have high standards 💁🏻‍♀️ get her back in where she did her well-run show.

I get the "well why don't you volunteer" comments but equally people shouldn't just be setting up children's groups with no knowledge of safeguarding or basic understanding of their responsibilities. Are these volunteers DBS checked, have they got any safeguarding policies etc? If not then parents should be told they have to stay for the duration of the session to supervise their own children.

They don't have proper safeguarding procedures if they allowed your DD to leave with another adult without your agreement. I would pull her out on that basis.

“The tricky thing is that one of my friends is on the committee of adults running it, and she tends to get really angry if people quit when she’s worked hard to organise something creatively”

Before pulling out, I’d give your feedback about communications and safeguarding issues so they have a chance to at least improve it. Your DD still wants to do it so it’s reasonable to try and get a solution to your concerns first before it comes to a head and you pull her out when they’ve started learning the parts.

This is what you say to your friend.

And this is why you leave.

Being volunteers is no excuse for allowing a 6 year old child to leave with a random adult. Especially as they didn't even contact you to say they'd finished earlier, and didn't see an issue with it when you contacted them.

Standards of safeguarding shouldn't be lessened just because people are volunteers. And I say that as the former chair of a playscheme run entirely by volunteers for 15 years that had full on inspections in the same way any other childcare facility did!

I don't do am-dram.

I do play in bands.

Many bands these days are either children's bands (and fully compliant with safeguarding etc) or adult bands.

The reason for this is that if an adult band finishes early we all just go home. If there's even one child there then we have to make sure they are appropriately supervised at all times etc etc.

Children's drama groups mostly cost money because the paperwork and certification involved in safeguarding is not trivial.

An am-drama group that presumably just wants children for the chorus of the panto may well not be aware of how the requirements for working with children have changed.

When I was involved in a. Children's band (my kids played) we made it that parents had to be present for all rehearsals, performances etc and we took no responsibility for the children whatsoever. The requirements of we did take responsibility for them were horrendous.

I would volunteer to help and stay each week or pull her out, they way they have behaved is unsafe.

It sounds like a parody of an am-dram group.

I bet the “performance” will be a hoot.

I doubt any of the adults involved have a single DBS check or even a vague notion of safeguarding amongst them, and there’s not a chance I’d be leaving a child unsupervised with them.

I've been involved for dramatics for children, including panto.

The first thing I'd say is that she will probably absolutely love it if she does do it. I remember dd in her first year, just turned 5yo, coming home from the performances so excited. She did it until she left home!

The next thing is: Have you been asked about the children's licencing? They may do a "Body of Persons" but you should still be filling out a form for them to register her, and they should have qualified chaperones for the performances. It's a legal requirement, but they may not know, so tread a little carefully.
If they don't know you can decide how to follow that up. If they do know and are ignoring it/not doing the regulations, then huge red flag. Pull your dd out and report them to the council (children in entertainment)
This gives regulations for how the children should be treated. I can give more info if you want.

My next question is, is this the first year of having children her age?
If they're used to adults, they may have not realised the difference. In which case they may be open to discussion.
If they have had children in before, then talk to the parents of the older children. If there's no returning children, again, I'd look on that as a red flag.

It's normal to expect the children to make a commitment. The issue with panto is that a lot of dances etc are interactive. So a child missing means they don't know what they're doing but it's also hard for any child they interact with. We always had the rule that they must commit to be there for almost all rehearsals (ones round Christmas were a little more fluid) and when it's full cast, they do have a lot of hanging about and waiting.
They will be expected to behave professionally. So quiet when others are rehearsing, and ready to go when called. It sounds tough, but with a number of children, you have to make sure they know what they are doing to be safe.
We would not have generally allowed parents to stay for rehearsals (you got issues such as parents taking photos) unless they were involved, and they cannot (under chaperone guidelines) be looking after the children on their own.
We did normally have parental helpers, who had to be DBSed but they would stay behind when backstage unless there was a specific reason, due to lack of space and a lot of other things!

But as I said, she will probably love it, and be begging you to do it again!

I’d be pretty concerned about the safeguarding aspects. Particularly as I was in an am-dram group as a child and now realise that in my early teen years I was being groomed by a guy who worked on the peripheries of the production. It should have been obvious to the adults in the room but protecting the children just wasn’t their focus. I’d either pull her out or stay to watch the rehearsals so I was on hand if DD or any of the other children needed me.

I work in professional theatre, often with young people. The group sounds well intentioned but inexperienced and haven’t put the effort into working out how they should rehearse with children. Your daughter is too young to speak up if she doesn’t feel comfortable and that makes her so vulnerable. Bad experience in drama can put children off for life and that’s such a shame.

I think it would be wise to take her out now, it doesn’t sound safe and the longer you leave it the worse it’ll be to take her out, both for her and for the company. There is so much great am-dram and children’s drama going on in this country, I’m sure there will be something else better.

That’s assuming you don’t have the time/inclination to help out yourself to sort out these issues. If you do decide to keep her in the show, I would:

• read the script if you haven’t already and check it’s appropriate.
• Have a chat with the director and ask about her plan for teaching the choreography and the singing. For instance could you have the music on a voice note so the children can practice the songs at home?
• ask what will happen backstage during the longer rehearsals, tech, dress and performances. How will the children be looked after from a safeguarding point of view? I always think backstage is the riskiest bit for young people, lots of people dressing etc. I am not suggesting predators abound in your village group (though I have known it happen) but kids can feel very uncomfortable if nobody has thought about it.
• they should email an entire rehearsal schedule in advance (for the children, if not for the adults).
• check now about costumes in case you are going to be asked to make them.
• if I was running this the kids would absolutely have a chaperone, probably one of the parents, but a designated person would be there always, advocating for the welfare of the children. They should never have let your daughter go off with someone else, that’s extraordinary. (Edited to add: in professional theatre the rules for this are very stringent and it has to be a professional licensed chaperone; I’m not sure about amateur requirements but the poster above sounds correct to me and the company should check their legal obligations).

They probably could do with your expertise in safeguarding! But you shouldn’t have to if you don’t want to.

But in my view your local theatre may have something brilliant going on, and rather better run. She sounds like she loves performing and it can be such an amazing outlet for kids.

Aside from the safeguarding issues it sounds like the lady in charge is chaotic so I’d be out, even as an adult. I’m sure you can find better-run productions for your DD where you actually know what’s happening, when and for how long. If the person in charge is like this now imagine what she’ll be like when she’s stressed out closer to the performance date

Pull her out. DD does pantos and it's intense enough even when it's well organised with proper chaperoning/safeguarding in place.

If this is what the adults are like in September what are they going to be like in December when the pressure is really on?

That is very young to be doing an informal am dram type production. I have just pulled my 8 year old out of her drama group as although comnuinication was good, those with small parts seemed to be left for hours doing nothing, and she was getting frustrated. I fully appreciate the hard work of all those involved, but just felt she was too young for all the late evening rehearsals and being unsupervised for hours. If you are going to pull her out, do it at the start so as not to be disruptive. Or if she really loves it, I would suggest volunteering to help if your work schedule allows, so you can keep a closer eye on her.

There will be better experiences out there

This sounds awful and it won't be enjoyable for your DD long term. If you have a regional theatre look at their children's classes often those children will feed into the panto too and it will be properly run. It'll cost more but you get what you pay for and that is properly qualified workers experienced in working with children of all ages and well organised programmes.

This has safeguarding issues all over it, so what if the lady you know is going to get angry - that is even more of a reason to pull her out

I feel stupid for leaving DD there even for this one.
I’ve just told them DD won’t be returning because they allowed her to leave with and unknown adult and didn’t contact me to inform me that the rehearsal had ended early. Im probably going to be accused of being a Karen but I have also pointed out that they need to improve their safeguarding policies and procedures.
(if these are even in place!)