To pull DD out of drama group

[Hmmmmnotconvinced]

DD (6) has recently auditioned for a local panto am-dram village hall type thing.

A few of her mates are doing it with her.

The lady running it from the start has had a slightly chaotic communication style, for example sending me messages full of random information in response to my simple questions about which part my DD had been given, like names and surnames of all of the kids who’d been given main parts (kids I didn’t know). Also forgetting to add various parents to the Panto watsapp group and expecting other members to relay information.

In the audition, the kids were given scripts full of dense text they’d never seen before and were literally sung at by the adults auditioning them with no context, just sung at.

They weren’t given any direction about what to do so obviously just stood there!

There was one part where the ladies auditioning the kids snatched their scripts out of their hands having just given them to them and said “you don’t need this now do you?” At one point they started dancing quite a complicated piece of choreography and shouted “come on, join in”, but hadn’t broken the steps down in to small chunks to teach them, so the girls were a bit taken aback.

The husband of the lady auditioning the children sort of laughed at how motionless the kids were but I completely understood the kids reaction as they weren’t being dealt with in an age appropriate way which would bring out the best in them.

Late one Saturday night before a 2nd audition that the children were invited to attend the morning after, the parents were emailed an amended script for the children to familiarise themselves with (it was bedtime at this point so no way my DD could have scrolled for ages at the large amounts of text despite being a great reader!)

At the 2nd audition the ladies auditioning the 6 year olds were asking them if they would be free for a few hours every Sunday in November and December Again, the kids didn’t know what to say as they don’t organise their schedules and know when they’ll be available in November!

A few weeks went past and we had heard nothing from the audition. I eventually text the lady running it and asked if my DD had been given a part and she said yes and told me that I should have known that. I asked if I’d missed an email but she didn’t reply.

Yesterday the children went to the first rehearsal. One of the children’s grandparents stayed for the duration of the rehearsal while we were told in the group watsapp to collect the children at 3pm.

At half past 2 DH and I received missed calls from the father of one of DD’s friends and when we called back he said that the rehearsal was over and that my DD, her friend and their other friend had been taken to the park nearby with DDs friend’s grandmother because the rehearsal finished sooner than they expected.

I work in education and my safeguarding alarm bells were ringing off the wall!
why had DD and her friend been given to their other friend’s grandmother to hold on to?

I sent the lady running the pantomime a screen shot of the time she’d sent me saying 3pm pick up and asked that she send us a schedule in future of rehearsal times to help us plan. she just casually said that the rehearsal had come to an end quicker than they thought it would. In my mind they should have called me at this point, not allowed my DD to be taken to a park with a random old lady in the rain!

When DD returned home, I asked how the rehearsal went and she said that in all of the hours she was there, her and her friends just had 3 minutes worth of doing anything and the rest was just sitting there doing nothing.

I asked DD if she wanted to quit and she said no because she likes seeing her friends and she wants to be on stage again (she’s been in a very professionally run production and has loved it. This is the first ropey one) I think I need to pull her out of it now because I don’t feel that proper safeguarding is understood by any of the adult members.

The tricky thing is that one of my friends is on the committee of adults running it, and she tends to get really angry if people quit when she’s worked hard to organise something creatively which I understand so think it’ll be better for DD to quit now rather than further down the line. I also just don’t feel they understand that children aged 6 need to be occupied!

AIBU?

I would pull your DD out as it's not a suitable environment for her and the people in charge are not safeguarding her properly. 6 is far too young to be left to navigate this on her own.

Are they registered with Ofsted or a Charity? DDs former dance school was both, if so I would be reporting their failures - in particular allowing a 6 year old to leave with an unknown adult. That alone is such a huge red flag that they don't have a clue what they are doing, how is their knowledge of warm up/cool down if they started to get ambitious with dance and acrobatics? How is their general H&S?

I think you have done exactly the right thing and phrased it perfectly

I’d report them. Appalling lack of safeguarding and simply not safe, however well intentioned. They’re pretty stupid really putting themselves in that position.

I would pull her out- volunteers or not, you don’t send 6 year olds off with a random adult. I think they’re supposed to have proper licensed chaperones even if it is am dram. It sounds dodgy and will probably only get more chaotic closer to the show so id pull her out now

It sounds well intentioned but letting your DD leave with the grandmother of another child is a big No safeguarding-wise and for that reason I would not be happy about my child being sent there. My DD does drama at a local theatre group, could you look for one of those? It’s been great.

So what if they accuse you of being a Karen? If that's their reaction to safeguarding concerns, all the more reason not to trust them with your dd.

Well done! I’m interested to hear their response.

Safeguarding issues all over this. I’d have tore her a new one over the pick up time.

Take your daughter out.

The am dram societies near me just don’t take primary aged children and it is probably to avoid exactly what you’ve experienced. They just don’t sound like they’ve got enough experience with young children or have clear processes in place.

As an aside, there is a venue local to me that tried to set up a holiday club. They got an absolute roasting from ofsted due to a complete lack of safeguarding procedures and weren’t allowed to open in that capacity as it was clear they shouldn’t be allowed to be in charge of children without their parents.

Glad you've taken her out OP. If you feel able to, it would be worth speaking to the safeguarding unit at your local authority to alert them to the safeguarding concerns about the group. A lot of well-intentioned people set stuff up like this without understanding the massive responsibility they have and it would be good for them to receive some more guidance.

This.
Disaster waiting to happen.
Your daughter is simply too young to be left in such a chaotic environment.
I simply wouldn't trust them.

She doesn’t seem to understand and tells me that I’m “needlessly worrying” and that in 40 years she’s never had a problem, that the grandmother reassured her that she was responsible for the children’ etc. she’s not seeming to understand my point so I’ve stopped replying. Sadly she’s a kind hearted lady who is doing something lovely for the community and now clearly feels I’m accusing her of wrongdoing which I’m not.
I’ve told her as much but she’s just messaging me now repeatedly about how this is a me problem!

I’ve just googled the law in the uk with regards to groups such as these and there are loads of rules they’re not following so let’s hope nothing bad happens.

Im probably going to be accused of being a Karen but I have also pointed out that they need to improve their safeguarding policies and procedures.

You can make the same point without resorting to misogynistic tropes like "Karen".

You've made your decision but I would agree with others about it being a) volunteer or b) withdraw. I had similar with my 6 year old earlier this year albeit with organisers who were much more tuned in to safeguarding, and I ended up managing the WhatsApp group / making sure all parents were on there and handling the signing-in and -out of kids most weekends. It was a brilliant experience for the children involved but they needed the adults to step up and help too.

We’re in a misogynistic world I’m afraid but thanks for detracting from the point of the thread to pull me up on my phraseology.

I’d pull her out for the safe guarding failure alone. You don’t hand children over to random adults - ever. No one could argue with that, friend or not.

YANBU, except in perpetuating the term ‘Karen’. Just let it die a death, fgs!

I really would encourage you to make a report to the LA about the group. They will likely have a form online to do this, and you can ask to remain anonymous. You can point out how you feel they're well-intentioned etc so it doesn't have to be a massive pile-on for them, but if no one in a position of authority knows about the concerns, or if everyone thinks someone else will report it, nothing will get sorted and something bad very well could happen to a child. If they're not vetting the volunteers, someone potentially dangerous could be left alone with young children.

If you want to give the nice lady a chance, send a long detailed email about all the rules they aren't following. Tell her that you strongly suggest that they look at these, and that you're going to contact the LA in any case as you're concerned re welfare/safeguarding. The LA at least will take it seriously.

I can’t believe you’ve carried on with sending your six year old there, despite it being an absolute shambles.

No, don’t send your child somewhere that doesn’t cater for her age and ability. That’s pretty obvious. Who cares if people are cross at you for being flakey. Be cross with them for being disorganised.

I’ve sent her there once. I won’t send her again.
I’m delighted for you that you are so perfect, it must be fab!

Is there a safeguarding lead you can have a word with? If they are working with kids it should be clear on their website. If there isn’t one, major red flag. It sounds like this lady just hasn’t kept up with the times at all.

What? This woman is literally negligent and allows a child to leave her building with some random woman and you think op should buck up and volunteer to help? Why? She didn’t ask this woman to stage a pantomime?! And the woman staging the pantomime does not have to if she a)doesn’t want to or b)can’t appropriately organise it whilst keeping the children safe.

fuck that shit op get your daughter out of there - she’s 6. She needs constant supervision. If she was older and wanted to and could take care of herself properly yeah fine whatever. But she’s 6. There’s legal protocols she is not going to be following so no. Sack it off before someone gets hurt. And if your friend is angry at you for quitting - tell her she has safeguarding responsibilities which are not being met and you’ll report her to the local authority. Honestly what is wrong with people? Volunteer…!? If a teacher had let your kids out of school with a stranger your wouldn’t be shrugging your shoulders. I’d be so furious.

Amateur performances have exactly the same regulations as professional. Chaperones, timings, changing rooms, the lot.
The only concession is that if you have a group, you may be able under certain circumstances use a Body of Persons licence, which covers all the children rather than individually licencing each one.

Chaperone regulations go up to the end of year 11, so 16yos.

No website and I’ve just asked her to email me her safeguarding policy to which she replied ‘I think we better close it there good luck for the future.’

Ah. I know the type OP. I’d look into taking this further but would have to start with who to report this to - doesn’t sound like they even have a safeguarding policy so surely that’s breaking some rules. If she’d been apologetic I wouldn’t be so tempted to kick up a fuss!