To wonder how people who have affairs justify it to themselves?

[CockerMum]

Prompted by another thread but also a discussion recently with a friend who mentioned they have another friend who has been having an affair with a married man for a decade.
If you have had an affair, even if you regret it now, how have you justified this to yourself?

I think it's not always black and white.

I've been thinking lately that my DH might be tempted by an affair. The last couple of years my libido has jumped off a cliff and I just don't really have much interest in him tbh. He's always been an amazing husband and he does still try to connect with me, we get on well but it definitely feels like we are friends who live together and raise children. It doesn't make sense to end the marriage as neither of us are particularly unhappy and we are pretty trapped by finances and parenthood.

Tbh I wouldn't blame him if he did have an affair at this point. It's understandable, and he deserves to feel desired.

Esther Perel wrote an excellent book on the topic, OP.

Well worth a read, if you're interested.

This is really dependent on your personal opinion of what makes a person "decent", and that will be defined by your personal morality. Other people will have different opinions because they don't share your personal set of values and morals.

Personally I think anyone who turns down the opportunity to be happy because of some other person's moral code is a fool. It's fine to say "oh you should leave/divorce first", "overlaps are tacky" etc, but you don't know what someone else's personal situation is, and again, you're applying your own moral values and judgements to someone else who quite likely doesn't share them.

Most pertinent example I can think of is a male friend who was having a two year affair while still married, but the marriage was totally broken, miserable, and irreparable because of his wife's behaviours. He instigated divorce proceedings, he's still with the "OW", and they're blissfully happy. I see no reason at all why he should have spent those two years needlessly being miserable by denying his feelings for OW just because there is a timescale attached to divorce.

The same thing happens on MN with posters being really judgemental about people who leave one long-term relationship, and are in another in very short order. There seems to be no recognition of the fact that people can be utterly miserable in relationships for years on end, finally have the fortitude to leave them, and that is such a relief that there is no need whatsoever for a "grieving" period because simply being out of the relationship is comparative bliss. They then meet someone new within a few weeks, and they are not "on the rebound" because they did all their grieving while still in the previous relationship. That's how it's invariably painted on MN though, especially when it's a man who leaves his wife and then has a new GF in short order. This exact thing happened to me. 20 year+ relationship, left, met my current partner within 6 weeks, been together nearly ten years and still happy. I couldn't care less how anyone else feels about that, because I'm perfectly comfortable with it.

(When a man leaves his wife for his mistress, he creates a vacancy'
Will you still trust him when he has his next 'exit affair'?*

Lol. That old chestnut 🤣🙄

I am sure this is true, but I also think some people don't justify it but do it anyway.

Lots of times people do things they know aren't right but still make the decision to do them.

But I tend to think the most common reason is that people would like to separate, but can't see how to make that happen due to kids or financial situation. So they justify it as less bad than leaving the marriage altogether.

In general I think people often deceive themselves with affairs. And also with things like stealing, cheating at taxes, whatever.

They don't , they know it's wrong but they do it anyway or they convince themselves that their partner is an awful person to ease their guilt

@daliesque ?

Mumsnetters are very black and white about affairs. The reality though is that plenty on here will have been the OW at some point in their lives.
Do we ever justify our behaviour when we do something morally questionable? I suspect we're rather swept along by a tide of exciting feelings that make us feel young/noticed/attractive again and we don't stop to think about the dreadful consequences (including the effect on ourselves because being the OW is never a comfortable position to be in) or the effect on the wife and kids back home.

Becuase you are stuck in a relationship you don’t want to be in, but is so much easier to stay in. Kids, money etc…I love my partner (father of my kids) but I’m not totally in love with him like i should be after 18 years! Too much toxicity etc - but the house, me being lower earner, kids doing A levels etc, just not the right time - but we have needs, not even just sex but to feel wanted and appreciated
which you don’t always get from partner becuase they just see nagging about housework, DIY, etc, to have that feeling of total desire is something else !

I went through a phase of sleeping with married men. I'm ashamed of it now, but at the time, I did it because it was exciting. The exoticness of the forbidden fruit was electric to me. I found dating in the normal sense boring in comparison.

Sneakily arranging to meet people in dodgy hotels in a low key way is all part of the fun.

I imagine that's the same for a lot of people who do it.

my feelings of desire outweighed my feelings of guilt

sometimes it’s not so complicated we can all be selfish at times

Yes, that's exactly how they often justify it. They lie to themselves and demonize the spouse.

You've just described what is objectively very selfish, immature and irresponsible behaviour while saying that people on MN are being too black and white by judging such behaviour. You don't see a contradiction there?

I think affairs mostly are sign of a fundamental broken or bad relationship…. That’s why they occur.

there are other smaller reasons… such as chance, lust, boredom and serial cheats etc.

I think for men a lack of sex and women emotionally connection

Here's the problem with that kind of rationalization. In being an OW or OM, one is actually imposing their moral code (more like lack thereof) on the spouse of the person they are having an affair with. It's her/his marriage, and s/he gets to decide what values are attached to it, not some interloper. The spouse doesn't get the opportunity to do that, because s/he had her/his right to consent violated by both the cheater and the affair partner.
That is abusive behaviour by any reasonable standard. To be an AP is to enable and participate in a form of abuse, albeit with a lesser responsibility than the cheater, but the AP should certainly accept the responsibility for her/his choice to do this. It is only just and fair to consider that an appalling thing and to judge the abusers accordingly. So there really is no moral ambiguity here, unless the spouse is her/himself abusive or has cheated. But cheaters lie about those things in order to justify their actions. The AP is unlikely to get the truth about that. So as far as any AP knows, s/he is harming an innocent person. Where's the moral ambiguity in that? If the cheater and AP say that that according to their moral code it's okay to harm innocent people, then at least they're not being hypocrites, just assholes. They should just expect to be judged by their actions as assholes and not whine about it. Consequences suck, but mature, responsible people accept them if they are deserved.

The jumping into another relationship quickly after a breakup is not on the same moral plane as such behaviour, so I don't know why you're equating the two. That's not harming anybody, presumably, so anybody who judges you harshly for that is probably just an uptight prig.

Because they're desperate and their needs are more important than anyone else's

I don’t know, but I agree it seems to be more accepted these days. I’ve never done it.
Years ago when people got married I used to feel happy for them, look forward to it, but these days (especially when they spend 1000s) I feel very cynical about it and think ‘why are they wasting their time?, I will give it a year’ - and I’m usually right.
I think in this modern world women should focus on themselves and their career rather than marriage and children. Because chances are high they will be left holding the baby.
I know women cheat too, but I see it far more with men. It’s too easy today with all of the apps and SM.
I think birth rates will eventually drop very low. The whole modern world is geared towards selfishness, money, perfect body’s and the grass being greener on the other side. I think the younger generations aren’t going to be so quick to marry and have children as a result.

Possibly the most sensible and well written post I have read on Mumsnet.

The concept of marriage is so antiquated. Invented during a completely different era, where women did not work.

Totally unworkable, unrealistic and an arrangement not fit for purpose in the 21st Century.

I think this is correct. It is essential to be honest with oneself in these situations. Another easily overlooked factor is that some people will be exposed to far greater levels of temptation than others. A very attractive person, who lives a busy life surrounded by other people, is more likely to succumb to temptation than an unattractive person, either physically, personality or both, who leads a very secluded, isolated existence. I feel this is so often the case when people pass judgement on those in the public eye, making their remarks from the high moral ground, whilst not acknowledging that the temptation the person they are judging would never happen to them.

Life isn't black and white. There are lots of reasons people have affairs and I don't think it automatically makes someone a bad person or the person that "broke" a relationship. People feel trapped in abusive relationships and find someone that gives them love or attention. It's not hard to understand that.

I've never had an affair. But I don't think doing a bad thing makes you a bad person. I think victims do bad things but they're still victims and I think relationships are complicated but you don't own your husband/wife and they don't actually have to stick with you forever no matter how you treat them.

I don't really understand where the contradiction is, sorry.
All I'm really saying is that we're all human and make mistakes, there are all sorts of reasons people have sex with the wrong person, and being rigid in judging every OW isn't terribly helpful.

I'd imagine it's one of two reasons... unhappy where they are, or simply variety/excitement.

I can somewhat forgive the first one I can't, but I can at least understand). The second is just a scummy person.

I've seen women and men have affairs as they were in abusive relationships and it helped them exit, so all power to them quite frankly!

My advice to women will never change though, they should focus on education, career and financial independence then whatever happens they have choices and good boundaries.

What makes you think they justify it? They probably don't care. Or maybe the usual 'my ex was insane/a bitch' line still works, and they're too dim to wonder why their Adonis was with a woman like that then/what's her side of the story...

But in the main I think they don't care