CF Neighbours plans

[Arewe29]

I need to rant!

Got a letter from the council to say that my neighbours are building an extension, went around to ask for a full copy of the plans, as where we live (hill) will cause issues to our house. They said that they did not have any and that they did not know planning was even sought, bullshit!

I went online and yep there plans show that they are trying to build on our bloody land. Fuck me they must think I am stupid.

@TonTonMacoute not sure what universe you live in where calling someone names in that language is considered acceptable within civilised discourse, but I’ve reported you.

You can’t change the red line application area on a plan . So the planning officer can’t change that once it’s registered . Within reason designs can change if it’s still the same application eg a summer house and not a granny flat and you just notify everyone of those changes . But when it come to the red line on rhe plans you can’t alter it . The only solution is for the applicant to withdraw and alter the line or serve notice and then resubmit with the same line and different cert . However since another 3rd party jointly owns the applicants land , they would have to serve notice on the ex partner anyhow and fill in cert b . You just record on the form who you served notice on . On the online form if you tick the box saying other people own part of the site snd a drop down box appears to record who they are.

@TonTonMacoute

OP still hasn't answered the question of whether planning permission has been granted, if not there is plenty of time to sort this out.

you seem to have arrived at the present party a little late and then getting angry with another poster . As a retired planner I advised the OP regarding their land who then acted on that advice . Planning hasn’t been granted yet but the application has been made .

It could be amusing for Arewe29 if he neighbour's ex decides to be a bit of a swine about agreeing to the plans!

A lovely bit of karma 😁

@Marmaladelover

Just a question, as in every days a school day type thing..

Would you know what would happen if the CF neighbours didn't disclose that there was another person named on the deeds.
How would the said person know what's going on if they no longer have anything to do with CF house owner?

They could apply for judicial review to get the permission quashed . However if the court considers that they haven’t been harmed by not knowing then the judicial review application ( which has to be done within 6 weeks of the application being granted ) may not proceed . It would depend on the circumstances .

@Arewe29 , our neighbours applied for an extension which encroached onto our property. They had stated/ticked on the application form that all of the area being developed was owned by them.

We objected. They had an idiot of a party wall surveyor doing their application. It is very easy to call oneself a party wall surveyor. Not like a Chartered Surveyor. We hired a Chartered Surveyor (NICS). He did our objection for us. He outlined why it was in our property. He outlined the other planning objections we had (so a little different from you). This was noted in the planning section of the council and we had a visit from a planner with someone he brought. It seemed to be a training session also, as the planner was explaining to her about the boundary. Our Surveyor told us if they were given permission for an extension we needed to get a party wall surveyor at their expense.

Their application was refused and they appealed with a load of ranting gobbledygook from their party wall ‘surveyor’. Cue another visit from a chappie from the planning appeals office. Their appeal was dismissed. I can’t remember which planning office (council or appeals) added in some notes. One of these was that they should make sure the application is within their own boundary if they were to make a fresh application.

On foot of your objection that part of the development is on your property, it may be possible that they will get permission with the condition that it had to be contained within their own property. They may just need to submit revised plans. If they do, still get the party wall surveyor, agreed at their expense, and watch what they are doing like a hawk.

I love a good CF thread lol, good for you OP for thwarting their shitty attempts. Waiting for more updates 😊

They’re perfectly entitled to submit plans for works on your property but need to notify you and fill in the relevant certificates with the application, what they’re not entitled to do is build it without your consent. They’re different issues.

If you are in England. All Planning application must be accompanied by and land ownership certificate.
There are several. Have a look at the submitted planning application form.

Certificate A is signed when the applicant owns all of the land. Certificate B is to be signed if the development is on somebody else land. If certificate B is signed the applicant must send a notice to ALL other persons who own land.

If they have signed the wrong certificate then the planning application would be invalid and you should let the planning officer know.

Planning does not take into consideration land ownership but the correct ownership certificates must be signed as part of the process. The applicant still needs your permission to build on your land.

If you have a a copy of your deeds include them with any objection letter.

Further info on ownership certificates can be found at:

www.westminster.gov.uk/make-application/advice-planning-application-supporting-documents/ownership-certificate-and-agricultural-land-declaration#:~:text=Planning%20applications%20must%20be%20accompanied,on%20all%20owners%20and%20tenants.

Check with your insurance and or your mortgage company.... there may be a policy in place to cover thus and the bank will not be happy

No, you cannot apply to build on land that is not yours. Even in your own example, you applied to build on “family land”. A neighbour cannot build on another neighbour’s land. The OP simple needs to lodge on objection stating it is her land. I’ve done this. It’s a straight forward process.

Of course you can!

Its sensible to ask the property owner first as its likely theres information they'll have that you'll need, but you don't actually have to do that.

Its done when people want to buy a property and significantly alter it/build on it, no point buying if they won't get PP.

You run the risk of losing the money for your application and of course if your seller finds out PP is likely to be granted (likely, not certainly because most people wouldn't submit highly detailed architects plans at that point and whilst PP might be possible in theory, what the applicant specifically wants might not), then they might be inclined to whack up the price.

Yes you can I’ve done it dozens of times

Yes you can. When I was selling my house the person buying it applied for planning permission to build an extension because he wanted to get going with it ASAP so applied before we'd even exchanged or anything.

Yes, you can. You can apply for planning permission for any land. If it’s granted, it doesn’t mean you can go ahead and build though. You then have to acquire the land or permission etc. But you can do the planning application before you own the land.

With regards to retaining walls. Generally the stone the use to retain is wider than the fence itself so half would sit on your property and half on theirs. The fence then sits on top, maybe this is why it’s 9 inches on your land?
see diagram…not drawn by me but shows the idea.

I understand how a retaining wall works.

They are putting a wall on our land plus the footings. With no measurements of how high the wall will be.

The point is that they have not asked and lied, had they approached us and asked we would have probably said yes and let them do the work.

You reap what you sow.

It absolutely is possible. As has already been stated, ownership isn't a consideration when councils deal with planning applications. What that doesn't mean is that once planning permission has been given work can start on the land without the permission of the owner(s) being given.

Think about cases where developers apply for pp in order to convert buildings that someone else owns or build houses on the site of someone's large garden. Very often developers take on these costs themselves to incentivise property owners to sell to them or because they can make money out of the property and will give the owners a cut.

In the case of the diagram upthread…I’m confused. Does the person wanting to build the fence have the right to push the retaining wall into the neighbour’s land, in order to insist that the boundary fence sits exactly on the boundary? Or because they are building this out of choice, do they have to put the entire structure on their own property, and have the fence not sit on the boundary itself, but further inside, in order to accommodate all of the bits and pieces within their own land?

The question is could you build a fence on the grass to the left of the retaining wall in that picture? Yes you could - therefore they could also build the retaining wall to the right of the fence - ie on their own land… yes it may change what they can build but that is the tough reality - if you don’t own the land you can’t arbitrarily build on it - otherwise there would be chaos!

This is an example of the stupidity of people who don't have to live with the fall out of these kinds of designs. I.e. the builder or landscape designer. Yes it might look nice to maximise whatever is done in the garden, but it shouldn't involve digging out part of next door to put the retaining structure in! What happens if the OP wants to do something in her own garden in future years, but in order to do that she'd need to undermine this structure put in for the neighbour or it turns out it's in the way and the OP has to compromise her plans on her land. Just no!

That is unacceptable, they should have come to you and discussed their plans if they were good neighbours.
I would be concerned about land slipping because you’re higher up than them and excavating on the land level and below could cause major issues for your property and garden