CF Neighbours plans

[Arewe29]

I need to rant!

Got a letter from the council to say that my neighbours are building an extension, went around to ask for a full copy of the plans, as where we live (hill) will cause issues to our house. They said that they did not have any and that they did not know planning was even sought, bullshit!

I went online and yep there plans show that they are trying to build on our bloody land. Fuck me they must think I am stupid.

So the neighbours perhaps interpret that the boundary stays in the same place but the width of the retaining wall has to go onto your land to allow this.

I don’t believe it works like that. If they want a different (thicker) boundary structure, surely they start building inwards from the boundary line, so the width of the wall sits on their own land?

We objected to plans that were not on our land but did encroach on right of access we had across their land. They had to change their plans to leave that clear.

They don't then pretend to know nothing about the plans though.

OP this has given me horrors.

Our neighbours started work in 2019. Our land is above theirs. They excavated down and left our land unsupported. Our garden is now falling into theirs. There's nothing to stop someone falling over the edge in one area and there is rusty rebar sticking up out of the ground.

They didn't seek a party wall agreement. Our garage borders parts of their garden. They excavated down the side of the garage leaving all the foundations exposed. It is now riddled with damp.

We came home one day to find they had erected scaffolding on top of our newly reroofed garage. They've wrecked the new felt.

They are dirty fuckers too. They tore down a muture 1930s garden and piled all of it and building waste at the end of the garden including an old fridge. It's full of rats now.

Health and safety don't give a fuck. The council don't give a fuck and we haven't got the tens of thousands to seek legal help.

I hate my house now. I never go in the garden anymore and it's really affected my mood.

I really feel for you, it's so difficult to put a stop to this.

Also, if they are building a retaining wall in a slope (we did this) they need to think about drainage etc otherwise you could possibly end up with boggy areas in your garden.

Get some cctv up of the area they are trying to claim. If you are going away at all this will ensure hejy don't try anything when you aren't there.. My nd started smashing down our wall. Down 4 foot when I came back from the school run...12 mins.. Ddog bless all 10 stone of her was on dc's plastic play house trying to STOP HIM WITH HER TEETH.... The wall of our listed house....

@Sinisterdexter perhaps the notice was served on them and they didnt really take in what it meant and what the implications were. not everyone is on the ball with these things. We couldnt remember having seen the notice in the post because there was just so much coming in related to the sale and purchase. Giving them the benefit of the doubt I know but things do get overlooked sometimes.

It's literally just happened behind me, a large supermarket chain submitted plans, even though they hadn't rented the land (it was still marketed for rent).

They do this because if they get refused they don't want to end up tied into a property they can't utilise.

Before them HS2 also applied but was refused.

It also happened to my parents, someone applied for planning permission for their house then offered them money for it.

Planning permission is only that. It doesn’t give them the right to build where they can’t for other reasons. A legal letter is clearly required.

Is the planning permission granted or is it still on the consultation phase? If the latter, I’d write to the council and say the plans rely on extensive excavation of your privately owned land and the permanent annexation of a 9 inch strip. You have not been contacted by the applicant and will not be giving permission for them to do this. You therefore object and suggest the council tell the applicant to apply for planning permission for a design they can legally build on their one land, rather than wasting everyone’s time.

Did your parents accept the offer? My granny once came home to find a new neighbour in her garden measuring up. He thought a widow didn’t require a garden and planned to buy a chunk of it off her for a derisory sum. He had bought a new build with a postage stamp garden and tried to guilt-trip my granny over her large garden. The fact that she had tended it lovingly for decades and had great grandchildren who, like their parents and grandparents, had all enjoyed her beautiful garden, didn’t seem to occur to him. He felt he was entitled to her garden. It was very strange.

Absolutely insist that no works go ahead until you get a party wall surveyor. Put this in writing and let them know straight away.

You can instruct the best party wall surveyor you can find, someone local, someone who is a partner in the firm - they may be pay by hour (the best ones are). You will not have to pay for this, they will.

If you disagree with anything they are doing or your surveyor, then they will need to find their own surveyor too, and possibly another to mediate. The cost of all three surveyors is on them.

This is on your boundary line and near your foundations so you MUST get one, especially as they have tried to keep it quiet.

They also need a scaffolding agreement which you don’t have to say yes to.

@Arewe29

Its always struck me as odd that you can get planning permission for a prospective building on someone else’s land.

However, even if they get permission, you own the land so they don’t have your be permission. They would be trespassing.

This is less a planning issue and more a land ownership issue. You need to get a solicitor to write to them to say the plans encroach on your land and they need to adjust them.

You should consider a boundary fence exactly on your side of the boundary.

Finally, you could rehome a rare species of newt in your garden!

Health & Safety Executive?

The obvious issue is that there is no enforcement built into The Party Wall Act.

Your Council could almost certainly enforce BUT as with many of these things the issue is to get them to do it.

The garage roof is criminal damage so you could get The Police involved

You do not need to own land to get planning permission on it. Planning permission does not give you the right to trespass onto land and build on it though so it would be a pretty pointless thing to do unless you had already agreed to buy the land.

I have just sent them a whatsapp message and will follow it up with a letter written to them stating.

We have looked at the plans and can see they want to use part of our land to build the retaining wall, which we do not agree to and that we will also be employing a party wall surveyor of our choosing at their cost as we feel that the proposed works will cause issues. Including a landslip and drainage issues. If this can be sorted and their plans are changed we have no issue with their plans, until a change of plans we will object and will not allow any of our land to be used. including footing that will need to be underpinned.

This will of course make us out to be the bad guys, but heyhoo,

Don’t write to them , call the council planning office on Monday and put in an objection .

I will be putting in an objection.

Just seen on the plans we have a tree that is listed on the existing plans and on the proposed plans the tree has been removed.

The tree is in our garden, you cant make this level of CFuckery up. They want to remove a tree that does not belong to them and shields us from looking down into their garden.

OP you can get a tree protection order put on your tree, through the council.

It's possible to apply for planning permission over land someone else owns.
Really? Can you give an example of the kind of thing you mean?

May I but in?
Let's say I had seen your house, and thought 'I'd really like that house, but only if...' I could apply for plans to do my ideal, and may get the permission. That's when I come to you, and beg you to sell me your house. You can tell me to get stuffed, end of story. Or charge me way over the odds!
Now quite often a house will own a 'ransom strip' - there is land available to develop, or extend into, but you own it, not them. Or you are blocking access to an area that they own and want to develop, because your house/land is in the way. They can do nothing, even with planning permission, unless you let them (and charge a lot of recompense!)
There are of course the CF's who just think they will take over a bit of your land despite it being yours, but again, they cannot, despite planning permission just take your property.

No, it does not work like that. You can get approval for planning permission to build on somebody elses land. However as part of the application process the applicant must state who owns the land, in this part of the application land is the neighbours and part of the land is Arewe29's.

If the application does not correctly state both land owners it should never got as far as being registered. This is very different from the application being declined.

OP - If the application form does not refer to you as one of the land owners then email this fact to the council and tell them that the application is not correct and needs to cancelled.

No, it does not work like that. You can get approval for planning permission to build on somebody elses land. However as part of the application process the applicant must state who owns the land, in this case part of the application land is the neighbours and part of the land is Arewe29's.

If the application does not correctly state both land owners it should never got as far as being registered. This is very different from the application being declined.

OP - If the application form does not refer to you as one of the land owners then email this fact to the council and tell them that the application is not correct and needs to cancelled.

They probably need a 3rd party wall agreement and a surveyor to come round (if building within 3 metres of your house) at their expense. My new neighbours are doing an extension and had no idea they needed one (allegedly) or that digging across my driveway to connect to the water mains was totally illegal. Absolutely clueless and now repeatedly breaking the 3rd party agreement (no noisy work after 1pm Saturdays, foundations far too close to the house, causing a hole in our driveway) Zero consideration.

People can obtain planning permission for land that isn’t theirs. It happens all the time. But they can’t actually go ahead and build. It doesn’t matter if planning is approved; planning permission has nothing to do with who owns the land.

They still won’t be able to build. You deny access to anyone who tries. If they trespass then you engage a solicitor.