To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

Not all teachers are part time with young kids. When I was single in my 20s I went on loads of residentials because it was fun and I enjoyed the social aspect. I wouldn’t do them anymore.

Unless you are in a trust with its own pay policy, we don't have contracted hours. We have contracted directed time, which does include parents evenings, but are also expected to work an unspecified number of additional non directed hours to do fulfil our responsibilities.

If you don't want to do the residential and you teach a class who goes on one, you should talk to your head about it ASAP I think.

Did you think teaching was a job with strictly set hours and you never had to do a parents evening or run an after school club? I think you may have chosen the wrong profession.

Are you saying that you would be happy if your 4 year old in years to come never gets to experience a school residential because none of their teachers realised it was part of teaching?

Teachers are not actually paid for their holidays. A teacher's salary is paid for 195 days. This amount is divided by 12 so is paid monthly (hence a payment is still received during the summer break but it is actually payment for days worked previously).

Just say no. I am an MFL teacher and refuse residentials as is not convenient for my life. School tries to insist but it’s my decision so I politely refuse.

Every job requires some out of hours working but I think it is unreasonable for a part time teacher to be doing full time work for no additional remuneration. I think the OP should be paid a full time equivalent salary for that week if she agrees to do it or get time off in lieu (which I appreciate is harder for teachers than lots of other jobs). Realistically the disruption re childcare is going to be a pain. Residentials are great but will be hard work and knackering for teachers.

This comes up regularly on MN. I know you're right but there are always people who absolutely deny this.

Sorry to derail, but can I clarify what is actually meant by teachers not being paid for holidays ( I do have a reason for needing to know - not teacher-bashing!). The starting salary for teachers is now £31,600 ish I think. Do teachers get this amount divided by 12, or is it pro rata, so they actually get less?

I don't really understand the attitude. DD is a teacher, third year in, at secondary. She loves it. Takes an extra-curricular weekly and enjoys meeting the parents. She's in school at 7.30am and usually home by 4.10pm. She does about 90 mins prep and marking about four nights a week and is also maintaining a social life and her other interests. At her age and stage DH and I were at work at 7.30am until 7.30pm minimum. I had a lot of after work events and trips away as well.

The beauty of dd's job is that it's 10/15 minutes away and there is parking. She has volunteered for a two night residential just before Easter and for a summer trip to Europe. Eyes on HoD and SLT and as she says, credits now for later when she has children.

I think that's wild that teachers don't get paid extra for taking kids on residentials, or that their salaries aren't higher to reflect the sheer amount of unpaid overtime that's expected of them. I'm guessing it must be in their contracts, otherwise who would volunteer to do it? If you're away for a week, are you even getting paid minimum wage for that month once you factor in the extra hours? To me it's no different to telling a care worker they're not getting paid to work night shifts because there's a good chance they can probably sleep for most of the night!

‘Would you personally work a huge amount of extra hours a day, five days a week, for no pay? ’

our family regularly give up our time for lifeguard camps, Scout camps, volunteering at sports matches and races etc.

If nobody did anything that they don’t have to do there would be far fewer opportunities for our kids.

With some jobs, there are things you are expected to do in addition to normal hours, and not be paid, rarely contracted exactly but very much expected. With part time it's trickier and I know my dc's school did pay the part time TA's the equivalent of full time pay for the residential

I am a governor in a high school, we are hugely appreciative of the staff who go on residentials. They often do this as the residental is somewhere they want to go, and is related to the subject. We go to Spain, we go skiing, go to New York, as well as The Lakes, Scotland etc. We also have staff who stay late to coach out sports teams, and take them to matches ,/ meets.

I genuinely believe they do it, as they enjoy… they are always raving about it when they get back. High-School students are obviously different to primary, and have different needs, they can be trusted (to a point).

When OPs child is at school, she would probably be disappointed if there were no residentials, as staff didn’t volunteer.

If nobody did anything that they don’t have to do there would be far fewer opportunities for our kids.

It this kind of martyrdom that is taken advantage of and has led to our present critical recruitment and retention crisis.

Yes. Social workers, nurses, doctors, GPs, paramedics, the list is not exhaustive but extensive!

I think it's reasonable to say that you can't go on the residential but I voted yabu because of your ridiculous assumption that expectations of significant unpaid overtime are exclusive to teaching. I'm not saying that it's right that people should be expected to do loads outside of work hours - I don't actually think that it is - but it certainly isn't unique, and yes, there are lots of people who are expected to bear a significant amount of responsibility outside of their contracted hours for no extra pay. Sometimes on lower salaries than teachers too.

I appreciate how incredibly hard teachers work and I'm generally on their side in debates like this, but the odd belief that teaching is somehow the only job where people are expected to work and carry significant responsibilities outside of their contracted hours is very annoying and just makes people much less sympathetic towards you because you seem so out of touch.

Why should there be an expectation for a Year 6 teacher to attend? They are paid the same as qualified teachers throughout the school, from Nursery upwards yet Early Years /KS1 tend not to go on residentials.
When I worked as a teacher, residentials were open to any member of staff who wanted to go. There were always staff who were happy to attend so the children never missed out. It really doesn't need to be the class teacher who accompanies them.

I don’t see it as martyrdom. I’m not a teacher so don’t get asked as part of my job but am pointing out that outside of work people do give up their own time to help with exactly this type of thing.

They aren't teachers so it's different

Any examples will be met with questions that amount to "ok so they might work extra hours but I bet they aren't also teachers?!"

It is a total waste of time to try to convince some teachers that their job isn't the worst job in the entire world

I think just be honest 😊

Hmm. Loads of people work for free/work outside of their scheduled hours. I can think of loads of my friends and me and my husband both do too. Doesn’t mean a residential doesn’t sound like hell though. The main issues is your 4 year old and their care. Are you assuming you’re expected to go? Don’t go in all defensive.

@cardibach

My corporate jobs require travel, my dp often has a taxi pick him up at 4.30am for the first flight and gets home around 10pm, no time in lieu, if he stays over night he is often having to entertain his clients until 10pm or later, leaving on a Sunday or getting home on a Saturday isn't unusual either. No over time, time in lieu is rare, only if a whole day, bother for the lost time in evenings

Actually I bloody was!

You know about it with a lot of notice. What childcare options do you have?
If you really don't have anyone who could have your DC for a week then yes you can ask to skip it or at least only go to it for part of the week

Looking after children in the evenings were you when you were getting boozed up?! 😂🙄🙄wow…the lack of understanding towards the teaching profession never ceases to amaze me.
Er no…your evenings are spent getting 30+ 11 year olds entertained, safe then ready for bed, brushing teeth, looking after the ones who are crying for their homes…all whilst trying to throw some own food down your neck and get a little sleep yourself (you get none)…only to be up for full on day of activities. Getting pissed is not really ok if you get me 🙄.
kids love it tho…!