To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

@Sonolanona let me edit that for you

"I'm just a TA"

There is no "just", especially when it comes to TAs supporting SEND children. The TAs who support my child are worth their weight in gold. Or maybe diamonds 💎

Would you get any time back for working a full week instead of your contracted two days? Would you be working all day and evening and on call at night, responsible for a load of kids?

Would you get any time back for working a full week instead of your contracted two days? Would you be working all day and evening and on call at night, responsible for a load of kids?

I spent 15 years in a job where unpaid evenings were regularly expected, probably once a fortnight on average. Then there was one week per year where we did a week long conference which was full on 18-20 hour days. No extra for that either. Neither I nor anyone else ever complained or thought about refusing, because there was ample time to sort out childcare and plenty of notice and it was just part of the job which we knew about when we accepted the position.

I would expect the teaching staff my dc know and trust to attend a school residential. It's part of the job, surely. I am however shocked (although I shouldn't be) that there isn't extra pay for attendance. If you have caring responsibilities without help then you are in a difficult position. I would imagine the vast majority of teachers have caring responsibilities due to the demographic.

When my DC went on the year 6 residential, most staff 'dipped in' for a few days each rather than doing the whole 5 days.
Mind you, that was only a few hours drive away - not as far as yours is.
Reading your thread today OP has been good for me in terms of considering it from the other side (ie what a commitment it is for staff to make).

I’m sorry I really don’t understand what you’re talking about here.

Someone upthread said that teachers only get paid for 15 hours a week, but are expected to work for more hours per week than this. I was responding to that.

YANBU to decline to go on the residential, and I do think teachers should be paid extra to go on these sorts of trips. But, yes, MOST other professions expect employees to work above and beyond their contracted hours for free. For some professions, this won't mean they have the degree of responsibilty for others that you do, but for others, like Drs and nurses, it does.

it was just part of the job which we knew about when we accepted the position.

That sounds like a lot extra to be expected to do. This is key though. You don't know when you take a teaching job that you will be expected to do a residential. Out of a head, a deputy, a senco, 14 teachers and 14 TAs in one school I worked in only 4 would be needed for a residential. The other 28 adults didn't go.

Could you not compromise?

If you are a p/t Teacher I presume a job share with another Teacher? Could you each go for two and a half days? Could you arrange a family member to look after your child for half the week? Or agree that the job share does this year and you do the following year, so you each only do it once every 24 months.

It would go a long way in showing an effort with your new employers.

I know it’s not fun, I know you aren’t paid over time…… But Teaching is a salaried profession, not an hourly rate paid job.

Every job in the world has pros and cons. There are shitty parts to my job, but I knew the downsides when I went into this profession. Presumably you knew that if you Teach year 5/6 then there is a high chance there will be a week residential once per year. You have previously taught this age group and gone on residentials in previous jobs ……. So it’s no shock that the same applies in the new job you have chosen to take.

You say yourself it is not compulsory or expected that you attend. So what's the problem? Just don't volunteer. My daughter's year group are going on a residential this year. The teachers that organise it and go along are doing it every year and seem to really enjoy it. If no teacher wanted to do it then I guess the residential wouldn't happen. No big deal.

If you have caring responsibilities then don't do it. Certainly the teachers I know all did these pre kids and don't now they have small ones. Depends on your stage of life.

I regularly take kids camping with scouts for which I don't get paid at all! And I agree that some parents are extremely entitled. However the most annoying ones currently in our group are in fact teachers. You'd think they'd have some solidarity but no - lots of comments about how they do stuff differently at school - but of course not keen to volunteer with us.

If you are teaching a year five or six class, it is reasonable to expect that you would be asked to attend the residential. If you agree to go, you should be either given the two extra days off in leu or be paid for them. That seems reasonable.If this is offered it is probably worth attending the trip to prove goodwill. Trips like this can be really positive and bonding for you and the class group, although they are tiring.
Another option would be to offer to cover days for another class member who went, thus acknowledging that while you can't attend the trip you still support it. You should then be seen as somebody who supports the school rather than makes the hard work more difficult. If you do not go and your class goes, you will be covering in another group anyway and the work will be set for the group, so this may be a helpful option. A third option would be to share the trip work with someone else and agree to go overnight for the three days you work, as long as you can get cover for your child.
I think the best thing to do is go to the Headteacher with options to discuss rather than a blanket "No" and see what is said before you decide.

I would have previously thought teachers could have claimed some sort of over time or expenses for residential trips.

So I have learned something

No one should work for free.
This is something teaching unions should be campaigning and promoting

I sympathise with you and all teachers, Youre all doing a great job! However while this is a lot for you .Surely another teacher who may have been several times before, may have to step up again not very fair. Also would you not have been advised of this already? I would also think there may be a few raised eyebrows among colleagues if you dont go

Are you at least given time off in lieu? The teachers at dd's school are (normal state primary), which can give helpful days for long weekends away or Christmas shopping etc, but from what I've read on here the school may be unusual in this respect!

Edit to add: this may be because all the residential trips take place over a weekend

You sound very bitter...
I would say that as a teacher you get paid all year round even though you get long school holidays off and yes, I know teachers do work during some of the holiday period. However, it is fair to say that you get more than your average share of annual leave compared to other jobs. 13+ weeks per year as opposed to my 4.5 weeks... To attend a residential for a week is fair enough in my opinion...

I’ve taught for 30 years, done about 20 residentials and never ever had time off in lieu.

I am actually surprised to discover that year 6 teachers aren't more strongly expected to do the residential.

I would have thought of it as part of the job.

13+ weeks per year as opposed to my 4.5 weeks

Unpaid on top of your 4.5 weeks.

You sound very bitter...
I would say that as a teacher you get paid all year round even though you get long school holidays off and yes, I know teachers do work during some of the holiday period. However, it is fair to say that you get more than your average share of annual leave compared to other jobs. 13+ weeks per year as opposed to my 4.5 weeks... To attend a residential for a week is fair enough in my opinion...

NO! As a teacher you get paid for the weeks you work and your pay is divided by 12 months. You are not paid for your holiday! This is a common misconception.

And were you working 24/7 when you were there?

In my school you would get your extra time back in toil. We have a teacher who works 3 days but is going away for 5 so will get that back another time.

On top of SATs? That would require a special contract for Y6 teachers - and no one would do it.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. I have to attend conferences, often travelling on a weekend to get there, being away from home for a week and then travelling back the following weekend. It's an expectation of the job and unpaid. Next week it's the Liberal Democratic conference for example. I will be going this Friday to get set up. And home Thursday or Friday. Par for course.