To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

Is your thread to ask for advice about residentials? Or is it to have a random go at parents who have nothing to do with the planning of such trips?

Many industries “expect” staff to
work unpaid hours. That’s a separate issue in itself. Your attitude to a fundamental
part of your job is worrying for the teaching profession and smacks of selfishness. Why did you become a teacher if you don’t want to take part in this aspect of your job? What else won’t you do because you don’t want to? Let’s hope that the teachers at your child’s school don’t take the same approach to their jobs as you do.

Not if I’m not being paid any extra no.

peope frequently travel with work and don’t get paid extra hours. It’s pretty normal. I used to often overseas would leave on Sunday be away for weeks. Didn’t get paid any extra.

Yes same. I add the time from when I leave the house to when I finish work for the day, so it’s a lot of extra hours as I usually travel north from London. I don’t get paid for socialising with colleagues of course in the evening, even though we mainly just talk shop! But not expecting that of course. I wouldn’t travel as often if I was getting a standard 7.5hr day.

Ha ha no. They’re usually spent comforting the children who are struggling to get to sleep or walking back and forth to bedrooms asking the lively ones to quieten down. When I get to bed myself, I then don’t sleep well as I’m always listening out. It’s a massive responsibility taking other people’s children away and not one that we take lightly.
I love a residential and love spending time with my class but relaxed evenings they are not…just like being at home with my own children but x 30.

Just decline due to your caring responsibilities. It happens all the time. Pre-kids I went on every residential there was. Since I've been a parent I've done no overnight trips at all. Swings and roundabouts- I am at a different stage of life now. When my kids are older, I will do it again.

There's no scope to force staff to work residentials. If you are concerned that you have a SLT likely to apply pressure (legally, they can't, but it happens) give your union a call and they'll advise you on how to handle the conversation.

Anyway, you work PT! You can't be pressured to work days you're not contracted for.

The system runs on teacher goodwill - it has to, because there's no money to pay for the extra time and work involved in providing these experiences for kids.

My kids' school, sadly, doesn't do them any more. Staff just don't want to, and can't be made to. That's the sad reality. Day trips only.

It’s not compulsory.

Offer a compromise if you wish but there is no requirement to go.

I take part in resondential every year and every year without fail we come home to parental complaints over incidents we knew nothing about because none of the children told us. Never important or major but all then involve investigation and unpicking and rude emails to us from parents. It’s very upsetting and stressful. We are very rarely thanked for giving up our time with our own families to take the children away.

But despite all of this we still go because we know that it’s so important for the children and they grow so much in that short space of time.

Honestly reading this thread of entitled parents has really made me rethink my offer to go every year.

No point in asking people who aren't teachers. This is a teacher-specific scenario. You know you don't HAVE to go. You discuss this in plenty time and you cover someone else's class while they go. Like many things in teaching, it's not about the money. It's a wonderful, exhausting, bonding experience with both kids and colleagues that many teachers love. If you don't want to go, it's very likely another teacher will be glad to swap in. But discuss it early,

Most of the public sector and for less time off? Yes yes I know lesson planning...
Come and work in criminal justice if you like

Most contracts have something in them that covers this (e.g. needing to work outside of normal hours when necessary).

Is it during teaching term or during school hiolidays?

I used to do a bit of sports coaching, as a result I ended up on a year 5 residential as there weren’t enough male staff. Every night there were at least 3-4 children crying because they were home sick, one who had wet the bed and another who had been sick everywhere.

You couldn’t pay me to do it again.

You have got to be kidding and on the wind up. I have just come back from a Y6 residential. I worked 56 hours straight and have full teaching commitment today and tomorrow. There was no boozing - our LEA risk assessment doesn’t allow us and in a week where I am working 72 hours it would be idiotic.

At 52, I am too old for this shit.

Yes! Charity, I work for a non funded charity that covers a group of people who get no nhs support. Our team regularly work around 10 hours a week more than they’re paid for. And when I say regularly I mean every week

Civil servant here. If I’m away for work outside my usual hours I can take time off in lieu.

I am with you on the residential. Don't do it. And no travelling for work isn't the same as you do get some down time and no responsibilities etc.

You lose any argument about additional hours during a normal working week as this is common and usual for many professional roles but people tend not to moan about it in the ways teachers tend to.

I think all year groups have their unique expectations. I’m not sure someone should be expected to leave their own small child for days though. We tend to stay local enough that extra staff come just for the days and there are less overnight.
But- can we be very clear it is hard work?! I love residentials but they are a nightmare too:

Weeks of extra paperwork and risk assessments plus meetings with parents.
The absolute responsibility for a bunch of 11year olds 24 hours a day. We’ve all seen reports of trips which ended in tragedy.
They don’t sleep! Maybe older kids do but not primary! You always have kids with issues at night- meds to take, night terrors, sleepwalking, seizures…you literally have to sit in the corridor till they are asleep. Then they are up at 5 😂
Then you probably have to share a room with a colleague and sleep in bunk beds.

I always go and I love it but it’s work not a jolly. I also don’t understand who is drinking on these trips as we’d get the sack.

Oh my God, please stop moaning. We already had a thread on this, where other workers patiently explained over and over again that almost every job has the occasional requirement to work the odd evening or weekend (with no extra pay). Please. Stop. Moaning.

So, to clarify, most people on this thread would be happy to work a ~100 hour week, leaving your 4YO at home, even though you’re only being paid for ~18 hours, as OP is?

Is there someone you could swap with? My school does a 3 day one, similar distance. I have 3 children age 3,8 and 9 and I was the opposite I was desperate to go. Wanted to do all the activities and get a chance at something I'd never normally do and also the idea of some time away and unbroken sleep appealed 🤣 this year I want to go again as next year and the year after are my kids years and I won't be able to go with them, so I've put my name forward and I've let the other ta in the class know I'll happily swap if she's asked because she is similar to you and doesn't want to do it. I think as long as you find someone you are able to swap with it shouldn't be an issue? Is it the entire school and teaching staff that attend ? Or just the year 6/ oldest years? Either way I don't think they can MAKE you go, I guess if it was mentioned in interview and it states it explicitly in your contract it might be more tricky to get out of but like you say we don't get paid so if you aren't able due to family commitments not much they can do !

What?! We work when it is required to get the job done. Some evenings snd weekends, where required. Are you having a laugh?

I like residentials so I volunteer for them in my Key Stage. It’s hard work but fantastic to see children thrive doing activities many of them haven’t had experience of before.
My school doesn’t expect any staff to go just because they work in that class or KS. If we work on a day that we wouldn’t normally we get those standard hours back (i.e. 6 for support staff). No one’s career would suffer if they didn’t go, however, we’re not that sort of school community.
I dare say there are parents who take it for granted but I’d say from the number of genuine thank yous the majority do appreciate that we are giving our own time.
It would be a rare Governing Body that OKayed alcoholic drinks for staff on a residential! It’s always part of the planning and risk assessment. Maybe upper secondary, I don’t know? But definitely not Primary!

Of course you should go, its part of your job. What about supporting your colleagues? You must have known about the expectation before you accepted the role.

I totally get why you would not want to go on this - sounds exhausting.
But you have a mind set about being paid by the hour which I don’t get? Ie you are asking if people think you get paid by to attend parents evenings etc?
I hear from my teacher friends they have a ridiculous amount of marking - but they don’t keep a time sheet and get paid by the hour for it.

Most highly skilled jobs are not paid by the hour - there is a defined working day but extra on top of that.
That said - I believe teachers are an essential part of society and I think you should all be paid better. So if you are saying you don’t get paid enough to attend a week’s residential I would get that.