To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

"Vocation" and "passion" No, it's a job.

I think teachers are all amazing!! But I do also think most salaried roles include an expectation of additional unpaid hours, especially in the private sector. Teaching is maybe more in line with that than many other public sector positions?

But you surely can't be forced to go away for a whole week if that doesn't suit your situation.

NQTs start on £31k. That's a nationally agreed pay scale. What are you on about?

You are having a laugh, now. People list their salary as gross, not take home pay. Don't be so absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, having first spent 4 years training and in many cases, running up thousands of pounds of debt to student loans that is then deducted at source from their salaries until it is paid off.

So, like every other graduate job, then?

Unless its a private school, academy that doesn't follow the pay scales or school outside of England.

For all the criticism directed against one teacher deciding not to do what they don't have to do, think of those teachers who don't post here and simply won't go on residentials at all, responsibilities at home or no.'
There were a lot in very school I taught in when in the UK up to the early 200s, and I can only imagine it has increased.
The game has changed.

For myself I used to go in the UK, on occasion, though they didn't happen very often, and loved them - main scale teacher with no home responsibilities.

When I moved to Australia, where they are a thing with every year group every year, I only did a few. By then I recognised just how much down time I needed every day and you simply, and quite rightly, don't get it on residentials.

I've said it upthread but it bears repeating that those staff who don't volunteer have to cover the lessons of those who do.
Those who go have to set cover for their 24/7 absence looking after the pupils, unpaid.
Those who go have to mark and assess all the cover when they return after looking after the pupils, unpaid.

Just say no. I am sure they will be able to get someone else and it's not your problem if they can't. Even if you are full- time, you can say no.

@PicturePlace I assume by "NQT" you mean ECT? They haven't been called NQTs for quite some time now.
Academy schools and independent schools are not bound by the payscales. But an "average" f/t M1 comes out with less than £2k per month. Not exactly a massive wage, is it?
But I'm not sure wages are really the focus of the discussion here? I mean one could get paid £100k and still be entitled to only work their contracted hours.

I assume by "NQT" you mean ECT? They haven't been called NQTs for quite some time now.

Well done on correctly deducing that! Genius!

£31k is a great starting salary.

Your point being.....?

I used to teach a subject where residentials were very much part of the course. Partner took over for the time I was away and if he couldn't, DD stayed with with family or friends.
No one expects extra pay for this stuff, it's part of what we do.
Perhaps you can trade with a colleague? Invite a GP to stay for the week? Think of a plan for next year, go and talk to the senior staff and explain?

Respectfully, teaching now is a very different field to teaching 30+ years ago.

The point being why raise a point as worthy of note when it is in fact perfectly normal for every person who's been to university at a university where fees are paid by the student, like in England and Wales.

Remuneration packages are not calculated by salary alone. They also include other benefits such as employer pension contributions. For a teacher that's 28.68%. A starting salary of £31,000 is worth £39,866 per annum.

IF, as many teachers argue, they are paid the statutory holiday period of 5 weeks and that the rest of holiday time (8 weeks) is unpaid then it follows that they are paid pro-rata and that the starting salary is over £36,000. I've rounded weeks to make it easy.

The conversations around salary and holiday have massively derailed the conversation. Teachers are well paid and get long breaks from work. These are perks of the job. Those perks, however, do not “balance out” to a compulsory-voluntary 100 hour week, needing to arrange childcare and an insane amount of stress.

Respectfully, I am still involved in teaching. Nit all schools are the same.

@Maestoso

The point being why raise a point as worthy of note when it is in fact perfectly normal for every person who's been to university at a university where fees are paid by the student, like in England and Wales.

Yes, of course it is perfectly normal for every graduate who has paid fees. I raised the point in response to those who were implying that an ECT was on such a fantastic starting salary that they, along with all other teachers, should be expected to work way beyond their contracted hours. The reality is, that if that salary was actually split into an hourly rate (using the actual hours worked rather than contracted) then you would find the picture doesn't look quite so rosy in terms of amount paid for hours actually worked.
Regardless of how much someone is paid, there is still only so much a person can achieve in any one working day. They still need to eat, sleep and take care of family. There seems to be a mindset among some on this thread that having a life is unreasonable if you are in a professional role. The OP is perfectly within her rights to prioritise her family's needs above those of her workplace.
I know of graduates in other professions, with starting salaries in excess of an ECT, who have jobs that they get to leave behind when they walk out of the door. It is not a given that a good salary equates with working all the hours God sends.

Well paid- good one!😳

So you can see how much the profession has changed over the decades then. You’re right, not all schools are the same, but to know that you must know that lots of schools are hothouses for teachers (and pupils alike) and how much the pressures have increased. Therefore you must have some understanding of why teachers have started to see it as a job and not a passion.

Saying no now is reasonable, leaving it until say a month before is not. What you describe OP may not apply every year.

If it is practical to join for a day or two then make that offer. Only if though which may not be the case if I have understood your situation correctly or it is hours away.

I absolutely do. I just feel it is such a shame. The quality of leadership is so variable and the requirements in some schools are ridiculous. But my point stands, that where there is that passion and sense of fun, which is still possible to maintain in the right environment and with flexible and sympathetic leadership, teaching can be the most marvellous profession in the world. I feel sorry for the teachers on here who have not experienced it. And it wasn't all about money.

Also I absolutely agree that someone with a 4 year old should not have to go on residentials!

What about youth workers?? Should it be an expected part of their job? Or support workers who work with young people experiencing homelessness? Should they all just refuse to do it to?

@Janedoe82 no one should have to work 24 hours for 5 days straight voluntarily.

I guess it boils down to workload and if attending residentials is part of their agreed contract.
If they already have an excessive workload (that is undertaken outside of their contracted hours and is detrimental to their own well being and family) and the residentials are another extra, then they have every right to refuse if they so wish.
Without an already excessive extra workload though, it wouldn't seem unreasonable to be expected to attend residentials in those roles occasionally.