To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

Exactly.

Haven’t read all the posts- but my view is this. Teachers are paid an annual salary- regardless of how many weeks etc they aren’t paid by the hour.
Teachers also know when they enter the profession that they will be working with children and that generally involves school trips and occasionally even residentials. Therefore it should not come as a shock that they would need to go on one.
So essentially suck it up and get on with it.

Yes aside for the tedious argument about paid/ unpaid holiday (it’s a salary, you still get paid it in August…) what most teachers don’t seem to realise is that in 90% of jobs if you wanted to be off for 6 weeks over the summer, 2 weeks easter, 2 weeks Christmas and then 3 periods of 1 week in the middle of each this simply wouldn’t be possible, full stop. Even if you agreed no pay. I’d have to negotiate an unpaid sabbatical to take more than 3 weeks off!

I genuinely do think that teaching us a hard job but making silly arguments about pay and not even acknowledging that having all of the holiday times off, not having to worry about childcare (especially the summer) over most school holidays and always having a good break over Christmas without having to negotiate with co-workers is a HUGE perk of the job doesn’t help the teachers’ cause at all.

I have stated previously I think the pay is ok. I was just merely correcting a factual inaccuracy from another poster who was so adamant they were right. I love the holidays and they are a perk. They are one of the reasons I stay in the job.

Every single teacher thread on here goes the same way. It ends up all shouty because people think teachers don’t understand other jobs. This is sometimes true but equally none teachers think they know about teaching when they sometimes don't.

I would like to add though that unless you have done a residential you haven’t a clue what it’s like. I take my hat off to the scouts and guide leaders who do them for no pay.

@Heronwatcher

I think teachers are pointing out the pay scales in response to the tedious comments about all of the supposedly paid holidays that teachers get. Supply teachers do not get paid in or for any holiday period as they tend not to be contracted. For those teachers, the holiday periods mean no earning opportunities.
The amount of holidays also does not justify the often excessive and unreasonable demands placed upon teachers during their working weeks. Only so much can physically be achieved in a working day. (I speak from experience!)
If the job has such wonderful perks, it surprises me that you and many others didn't choose this career path rather than resent those who did.

Residentials should not be an expectation of the role. It is not within directed time like parents evenings and other events outside of the school day, and it also comes at the expense of the teachers own children and family. All the posters saying the teachers partner should pick up the childcare responsibilities are very ignorant to the fact that their partner most likely works too and can't switch their schedule around to suit the school. Their partner is also in most cases the one doing the bulk if not all of the childcare and household things because their teacher other half is already spending most of their evenings and weekends working.

@JasperTheDoll

Well said!

Rubbish - who would be a Y6 teacher if that was the expectation?

Like most people I weighed it up, but for me my job works better. My point is that it’s ridiculous for teachers to so dogmatically refuse to acknowledge that the guaranteed holiday entitlement is a real benefit which 90% of people in work can only dream of.

Apart from @Superhansrantowindsor who at least acknowledges it thankfully.

@JasperTheDoll He does, despite his health issues. He does the majority of the childcare a number of evenings so I can work as well as working himself ft in a stressful role. Sundays he often takes her to the park etc so I can plan. I'm very lucky to have him ❤️

@Heronwatcher

Yes, I do acknowledge that many jobs do not allow their employees the holidays during the same periods that teaching staff have.

Out of interest, where does your statistic of 90% come from?

You said you wished your husband earned enough for you to give up work? Is that because you love your job so much?!

OP, I've read your comments but not all the others.

I think your reasons are completely valid. I've been teaching for 30+ years in secondary schools. Before I had my children, I did a couple of residentials because I was "expected to". They were really hard work, but also fun. However, they were just before the summer holiday so I had time to recover. After my DDs came along, I didn't do any. I had nobody to look after them. DH then got a job where he had to spend extended periods out of the country so could not be relied on and MiL was too frail to look after them. Hence, I never went.

I went on my first residential trip with my current school in 2012. It was a music tour to a different part of the UK. I left DH and my father in charge. The DDs were then 13 and 11 so able to cope. The following year DD1 came along and the tour was to a European capital city. 2 years later both came with us and DH had a great time being home alone.

We're talking about another tour, but my needs have changed. The DDs are grown up, but now my DF needs care. I have a couple of options but there is absolutely no expectation that I will go. I refused to go on an adventure residential this summer, citing being a carer and that was accepted and no pressure was put on me.

I think if you are upfront about your family's needs, it would be unfair and unreasonable to ask you to go. Whilst it wouldn't earn you money, you could offer to plan & deliver in-school activities for those not going, which might accrue brownie points.

My school does residential trips, sometimes I can go, sometimes I can't. Its OK either way. Sometimes they only want minibus certified staff so I wouldn't be able to go even if I wanted to. You can't be forced to go, especially if you have responsibility for children or elderly family. It's fine to say you can't do it this year. If you want to look keen then leave open the option for future years, even if you never intend to go

I am new to a school and have been informed by a colleague this week that, traditionally, teachers for my tutor year group go on a residential with their year group in a few months' time. My response was "absolutely not", and I am standing my ground on it.

• I'm not paid enough for the hours I do as it is. The cleaner tried to kick me out last night, and greeted me today by asking whether I ever go home. I already work well above my contracted hours.
• Yes those hours are contracted. Only a certain amount may be directed, but the contract also says something along the lines of "within reason". Being expected to work, essentially, 24/7 for 5 days is not within reason and goes against any working time directive and against any workers' rights.
• I go to work because I need the money. I am good at my job, but I am not a slave to it. I work my extra time at my own convenience.
• I am a single parent. No one, absolutely no one, can mandate that I work extra hours and have to source day and night childcare when I have chosen to work in my job partially because the holidays are convenient and I get to spend weekends with my children.
• No one would reimburse me for the money I'd have to pay for extra childcare, nor would they pay me for working well above expected or reasonable hours.
• It is a JOB. It's not my life. As such, I have switched off from work for the weekend now and will not touch any work again until Monday morning. I wish parents would appreciate we're not there to pander to them, nor are we slaves to their every wishes. Residentials are done with goodwill and on a voluntary basis. You cannot expect them, they are a lovely extra when they happen.
• But there is less and less appreciation of what teachers put into those trips, more and more expectations of being available 24/7 to children AND parents, more and more safeguarding to remember and I just don't want the responsibility for little Joe sneaking vodka into their room and the antics that follow. When I was a pupil on a residential, we were expected to look after ourselves, find our own way around a big city, leave our teachers alone except for emergencies from 10pm to 8am. If we did that nowadays people would lose their jobs.

OP, you are absolutely not unreasonable to refuse. Sod what others say; if they want to badmouth you about this then they can go themselves.

Speaking as a retired teacher (secondary, not primary) I'd just say 'no'. Too much in schools is expected of teachers & other staff - and it is never paid or compensated with time in lieu.

FWIW You should always put your family first IMHO - I didn't always and now regret that.

It's nothing to do with being unreasonable or doing your bit. It's about employment law. Part time workers can't be expected to work on their non working days. Employers can ask, you can say yes or no. They have to pay you if you agree to additional days or give you time off in lieu. That's UK employment law.

My husband has a salary with 40 hour contract and he usually puts in 60 hours per week.
I have a salary of 40 hours and I often put in around 80 a week.
I'd say most people i know who are successful and have good jobs put in more hours than the contract requires.

My husband each year does field work and can be gone for 3 months and he doesn't get extra pay for all those weekends etc and nights.

I think primary teachers should expect parents evenings and school trips etc to prop up. Most teachers have children so I don't think you can use it as an excuse otherwise they wouldn't really want to employ woman or child bearing woman.

The post was coherent, even with the word "not" missing. Its meaning was changed :)

Does your husband have legal responsibility for 30+ children (of any age from under 11 to 6th Form depending on the school) 24/24 hours on the trip? No, thought not...🤔

Not relevant unless your Dh works day and night three to five days straight.

Doesn't that seem madness to you?

You are expected to work 80 hours for the pay of 40, possibly taking you below minimum wage.

That is not a healthy outlook. Being good at your job shouldn't come with lots of unpaid overtime.

@Birdingbear

I’n not someone who rushes out the door at 5pm sharp, but I would absolutely be looking for a new role quickly if I was expected to work 20 or 40 hours over my contract.

Professional roles require a bit of flexibility, but it sounds to me like you and your DH are being taken advantage of. I can’t imagine many people would be prepared to work such long hours unless on mega bucks (e.g. a law firm partner).

As a full time hospital consultant you should be able to comprehend that the teachers "whining" about this do so in response to those that don't know what they are talking about and are correcting the BS that posters put forward as truth.