To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

Hahahahahhajahahahahahahhahaha.

I’m sure you know, surely, surely that of course many are.

Doesn’t mean you should do this, but your argument isn’t helped by a complete ignorance of the reality of work for many professions. You really, really aren’t alone.

On any residential, in fact on any trip outside of school even just for an hour, a lead teacher must write a risk assessment. That teacher's name is on that document as the lead. Regardless of how many groups and other adults there are, the buck stops with that lead teacher as they are ultimately responsible for the content of the risk assessment and the visit overall.

I mean, yeah, I understand the concept of risk assessments. We have them in every workplace. My name is on hundreds of them. I don't quake in my boots at the thought. It's never occurred to me to think about it in such a Henny Penny was as the teachers on this thread.

Risk assessments are normal in the workplace. And, before you ask, yes, risk assessments that cover the health and safety of > 30 people - in my case, thousands of people. And for activities far more dangerous than going for a walk 😂

I never said anxious parents target their kids, I said some parents are extremely anxious and that anxiety can transfer onto their kids. I have some families who very happily let one go, and then a younger one who has a small additional need, which we are very able to support, isn't allowed to go. That is absolutely their choice, but it was a huge shame for this child who was devastated that their friends were going and they weren't. We had more tears from that child in the week running up to the trip, than I have had in total whilst away.

I'm very sorry that your child had a bad experience whilst on their residential, was that something specific which hapenned or just being away was very challenging for them?

You are deliberately trying to muddle the waters. Fixed or flexible leave is not the issue here at all. As a teacher you know you’re going to have fixed leave which may change if you move local authority. The issue is that I am not paid for the 13 weeks the children are not in school. That implies that I am paid holiday or leave for every one of those days. I am not and neither is any teacher. I am paid for 40 of those days and the rest are unpaid closure days. To make salaries manageable for HR departments, our annual salary is spread across 12 months equally.

When it comes to teacher pay the thing that causes outrage in the wider population is the idea that we get 13 weeks paid holiday. We don’t. We get 13 weeks and the rest are unpaid days. Being paid in the holidays is not the same as being paid for the holidays which you are well aware of.

Already corrected it further down the thread, do try and keep up. :)

Says the person who wrote an incoherent post :)

@StolenChanel Thank you. @Fluufer My husband had major back surgery at the start of the summer holidays as he has a serious spinal condition. This leaves him relying on the use of walking aids for considerable periods and clearly in a lot of pain.

Right, so not a single parent.

Thank you for wilfully misunderstanding. If anything goes wrong, the lead teacher is legally responsible.

Also a pt teacher with primary aged children. Haven't RTFT.

If I can go on residentals I do try to, however logistically it's very difficult and I'm always upfront with my headteacher if it's not possible. I have never been away for a full week with my students but shorter trips (3-4 days) are sometimes possible. However, this will always involve negotiation with DH (and he with his employer) as it might mean him working from home around the school run or taking time off. PIL can do some pick ups and drop offs but they're elderly and DC1 has SEN so this is not always possible. We have no other family to help (I don't live in the UK- the rest of my family does).

I also look at the big picture of the year - when else am I going to be asked to be at school/working outside of my regular hours (i.e. what is compulsory like open evening or Christmas performance evening) and what is desirable for school or for me (like an INSET day - some are more important than others). For example, I have to go on a course abroad this year for school which will mean I am away for 4 days including a weekend. I weigh up what has priority.

I don't feel guilty about not being able to make a trip away. Sometimes there are trips which are closer to home and this means I can help out for a day or do one overnight. It's not ideal but it's the reality of being a working parent with dependants. DH is also part-time so if he were away for work we would also have to juggle and see how we could make it work.

I'm quite lucky that my school/HT is more flexible than any school I ever worked for in the UK.

How does this make any difference to her situation when her husband clearly cannot look after their 4YO alone?

mean, yeah, I understand the concept of risk assessments. We have them in every workplace. My name is on hundreds of them. I don't quake in my boots at the thought. It's never occurred to me to think about it in such a Henny Penny was as the teachers on this thread.

Lovely to see how highly you regard the safety of children. Last year, a school came back without one of their Y6 children. The consequences can be horrific.

Did I say it did? I just pointed out, correctly, that she is not a single parent.
The residential isn't now anyway is it?

@Youthiswastedontheyoung If you are part time then your employer is unlikely to make you do a week long residential. But your focus on how teachers are the only people who work extra hours for free is utterly bizarre. Nowadays most people (outside of shift work) work over their hours and don’t get overtime. I regularly work late and a few hours on a weekend and my salary remains the same regardless. I don’t know any professionals for whom that isn’t the case.

Your comment about your solicitor is completely ignorant too. Your solicitor doesn’t get that money, the firm does, and it goes towards overheads. Lots of a solicitor’s work is not charged to the client or anyone else. S/he will just get a salary regardless of the hours worked - and I have never met a solicitor who works 9-5.

If you just want to have a moan about your job, fine, but stop making ridiculous and incorrect points about other jobs. Teaching is hard, I know, but so are lots of jobs.

Tbh it sounds hellish and if you don’t want to do it no matter the reason just say no you can’t commit to it.

no sure why your having a go at parents though. It’s being organised by YOUR school and presumably YOUR head teacher not the PTA or the parents. I’m a nurse and there’s plenty of unpaid overtime required as I can’t walk away and leave patients unsafe. I blame the NhS and the government not the patients and their loved ones.

Well it is clear from your comments in this thread that you are "anti teachers" and no amount of reasoning from those of us who know what it entails is likely to convince you otherwise.
Residentials with adults are totally different to those with children, on so many levels, and there can be no comparison. This is not about scoring points or "my job is harder than your job".
How sad that your only experience of residentials has been to go on walks. Maybe if you had attended more enriching ones, you may actually appreciate the work that goes into them.
I am sure that I don't need to remind you that not long ago, a Year 6 pupil tragically died on a school residential. Although mercifully rare, it can and has happened (more than once!) so yes, teachers do take it very seriously (unlike yourself who seems to see it as one huge joke) and we consider the safety and wellbeing of the children in our care as the utmost priority.
Although I am fully aware that risk assessments are present in any workplace, there is a world of difference between a group of responsible adults attending a residential and a group of excited 9/10 year olds who are probably experiencing their first trip away from their parents/carers.
Any sensible adult can see this!

I think the confusion lies in that whether you get £31,650- £56,959 per year stated as being for X or Y days is irrelevant to the fact it is £31,650- £56,959 per year and you are not mandated to be in school for 13.5 weeks. Arguing away that your August salary was meant for last May when you prepped for the summer term is clearly interesting for you, but doesn't mean you get a different salary nor different days off. Annually, you have the same salary either way, so you need to stop over-thinking it really.

Much of the population works 5 days per week with 5.6 weeks off, but nobody else talks about how they have 2 days every weekend unpaid, even during their holidays. Teacher workload varies through the year; most busy at the start of each term and during term-time and no expectations at all in mid-summer, but with some variation between year groups on where the effort applies most. If that works then great, if it doesn't suit for some reason then it isn't likely to change so you'll have to think about what will work.

She will get some sleep, I'm sure, but she is still in charge of the children while she is asleep. As a parent, if your child wakes you up in the night, you have to deal with them. It will be the same for the OP, only she has 60 children who will potentially wake her up in the night, and her method of dealing with them can't be 'bring them into bed for a cuddle and go straight back to sleep', which is the method most parents would utilise.

You seem to be struggling to understand the difference between adults and children...

Residentials with adults are totally different to those with children, on so many levels, and there can be no comparison.

I wasn't talking about residentials for adults. I'm trying to explain to you that all workplace activities (including activities far more dangerous than going on a residential) have risk assessments in place. Which are signed. Often by me.

How sad that your only experience of residentials has been to go on walks

My response about a walk was quoting a PP who said they needed to do a risk assessment for leaving the school for an hour. So, for a walk.

Honestly I’m not overthinking it. I am very very clear what the conditions of my employment are, as should everyone be about their own employment. The issue arises when people decide they’re experts about someone else’s contract. This comes from teachers to those in other jobs and vice versa. Weekends are not relevant to this as far as I can see (except to the poster way up thread who seemed to include weekends as teacher holidays). The non payment days impact on maternity leave holiday accrual and also accrued leave should you be ill outside of term. ‘Closure days’, as they are called here, are hugely relevant to teachers. At no point have I said it doesn’t suit me or work for me so I am unsure how to reply to this.

She will get some sleep, I'm sure, but she is still in charge of the children while she is asleep. As a parent, if your child wakes you up in the night, you have to deal with them. It will be the same for the OP, only she has 60 children who will potentially wake her up in the night

I guess with a ratio of 1 adult to 10 children, she would really only be woken if one of 6 children woke up. Or alternatively, a rota where 2 teachers are "on call" every night, with the other 4 sleeping soundly. But I'm sure you've thought of that, and are not being dramatic in saying that each single teacher is on call for 60 children, right?

I don't think people are trying to say their jobs are harder than teaching jobs necessarily. Just that it's a bit odd looking for sympathy from people in other professions because of how you're treated at work. It gets muddied because this is a parenting forum and most of us have kids at school, but most of us shop in supermarkets and if a supermarket manager came on angry at us for just not getting how much he had to do and how little reward he got, we'd be a big wtf? I do actually really care about teachers leaving the profession etc but I think there are better ways to gain allies than constant sneering at "entitled" parents in their cushy jobs "not getting it". why not start the conversation at look, the world has changed, everyone rightly expects more individual support for kids and better safeguarding, more competitive skills in the global workplace. And yet
families are under pressure, - ageing population, cost of living needing 2 parentsworking. We need more staff in schools to deliver what is best for our kids and our country, and be prepared to fund it.

And as an aside the "it's not part of my job" stuff does sound a bit juvenile. Unless you're in quite a junior job your job is to deliver outcomes and the expectations are that you'll do what that takes, or if you don't think it's achievable, you negotiate or advocate for yourself up your management chains, with union help if needed. Teaching always seems to have such dysfunctional relationships with their leadership teams and stakeholders.

You seem to be struggling to understand the difference between adults and children...

You seem to be struggling to understand the difference between taking kids to a holiday camp and dangerous workplace activities.

but nobody else talks about how they have 2 days every weekend unpaid

This is spot on