To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

It's voluntary and in every school I've ever worked in they have plenty of volunteers. If you can't or don't want to go, don't go.

I think it's absolutely fine whatever you decide. The only thing I think yabu about is getting cross at parents for 'nit understanding " I genuinely don't understand what difference you think that would make. Parents aren't in charge of your remuneration package and you can't really blame them for not being outraged on your behalf.

I am shocked no one has been grateful but that seems like a different issue, rather than one that should drive your decision either way. Our parent class at least bought wine for every teacher who accompanied ours, and we were full.of thanks. Ditto after the school show. That wasn't intended to be recompense though - just a gesture. I don't think you can hold parents responsible for your remuneration package.

And i do genuinely know what it's like because i have come across every single one of the "you have no idea" issues in my voluntary role. For which i don't get paid for any of the hours I'm there, but I'm not seething with resentment against the parents who send their kids on camp. No one has a gun to my head. Nor would a bottle of wine thank you it make a big difference to my decision whether to continue or not, nice though that would be. If it's not something you're willing to do, don't do it. It's the anger I don't really get.

HR professional here. 25 years+ in education.
If you want to 'get on' in your career then you need to step up and do this. These extra curricular activities only happen with goodwill of staff and are of su h great benefit to kids. Hopefully you will get this time back when kids are ill or you have some other emergency.

The trip should not be offered until staffing has been finalised. The school may feel pressured by parents if it has run this trip for several years, but that is for the headteacher to manage. If that pressure is being passed onto OP, then I’d be questioning if I even wanted to work there.

Bottom line is if the trip can’t be staffed safely it can’t run.

If not enough staff are available to volunteer, then changes need to be made to what is planned, such as going for fewer nights, choosing a venue closer to the school so some staff could swap over on the middle day, or simply no trip.

OP needs to be clear they can’t (not won’t) attend the trip so there is no thinking they may change their mind. The likely next option would then be to see if a teacher in another year group is willing to attend and OP be directed to cover their class on their working days as their usual class won’t be in school, but it’s for the headteacher and trip leader to find the staff, not OP.

@JoyousPinkPeer I'm a 43 yo part-time teacher (no management responsibilities etc) and with quite a lot of caring responsibilities outside of work. Being honest, career progression isn't a huge driving factor for me now. I am happy to stay a hard-working mainscale teacher.

I think it would be wrong to be forced to work so many unpaid hours in one week especially if the hourly rate is not high. But you don't have to do it, and you shouldn't, feeling so strongly against it. What might be unreasonable is trying to persuade MN folk to share your views, rather than raising it with the unions or your employer.

JoyousPinkPeer

If you are in HR your
If you want to 'get on' in your career then you need to step up and do this
statement just proves how poor HR in schools is.

Yep.

Still would like even one parent to explain why they are happy with their child being supervised by someone who has worked for several days with no break at all to speak of. It’s insane when you think about it.

Is that not how parents "work"?

I'm not saying it's oK for teachers to be expected to do it, but it's hardly an alien concept for parents.

@JessIe3 The pressure and responsibility on the teaching staff is absolutely huge as you say. I honestly don't think I slept for more than 4 hours on the trot over the three days we were away. And ultimately we are acting in loco parentis for that entire time period.

Do you know any parents who are in charge of 30 children for 3-5 days and nights in one stretch?

No, thought not.

That was to @Thrilley

@Jessie3 It was 90 in my previous school (3-form entry).

I don't know any teacher who's ever been responsible for 30 kids, single handedly, on a residential either 😆

But hey, one child, ninety children, same difference, innit? Not so hard on very little sleep, surely. I mean, the supervision is bound to be bang on. 🙄🙄

You think we apportion responsibility? Fuck that child, not my circus. The lead teacher is responsible for EVERY CHILD.

And that’s in law also, by the way, not just my fanciful notion.

I didn’t know that the lead teacher was single-handedly responsible for 30 kids on a residential 24/7 for several days 😮😮😮

There, @thrilley, fixed that for you.

@Youthiswastedontheyoung you'll see how little a lot of people respect teachers' work on residentials from this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/academics_corner/5154293-why-is-do-parents-not-thank-a-teacher

Some of the attitudes are quite shocking, and rather unimaginative, in not seeing the difference between 2-3 days of meeting clients, and 5 days of being in loco parentis for up to 30 children.

No wonder there are shortages of teachers. It's not seen as the important job that it is.

It's just part of the job.
Primary schools I've worked in, the teachers have absolutely loved doing it with their classes.

I could not agree more (as said in my post way way upthread).
I'm so sorry to hear about your assault; it is disgusting that you still need to associate, even minimally, with him in your workplace.
Judging by the many on this thread who think that teaching is a doddle, you'd think there would be an oversupply, and queues and queues lining up for teacher training.
I'm constantly amazed by the 'race to the bottom' mentality. "My job's harder than teaching", "you think teachers have it bad; in my job ..." Every job should be a good, well-respected and well-paid job. This thread happens to be about a teacher's right to say no to work that is superfluous to the classroom teaching the Op was employed to do.

Judging by the many on this thread who think that teaching is a doddle, you'd think there would be an oversupply, and queues and queues lining up for teacher training.

I teach & research in a university, and work 50-60 hours weeks on occasion and to a very high level of professional expertise and competence & multi-tasking, but I don't think I could hack it as a school teacher. The level of personal control, as well as having to effectively perform to an often unwilling audience 6 hours a a day, plus the emotional intelligence to deal with discipline, and children who disrupt, deal with disrespectful parents (as we see on MN) and so on and so on .

I'm always amazed teachers stay sane ...

I wouldnt do it....I still remember having to do a compulsory residential for clients with special needs on my nurse training 25 yrs ago. It was horrendous and everybody came down with the worst flu afterwards (which then spread to family and friends...the gift that kept on giving!).
They scrapped it shortly after! LOL😂

Don’t do it. I’m a part time middle aged teacher. Sometimes the younger folk don’t understand that I have no interest in career progression. I aim to be an excellent class teacher. Nothing more. No head of year job for me or assistant head. Absolutely not interested. If I were you ( and I have been in a similar situation in the past) I wouldn’t go. Please don’t feel bad.

This is a very worrying attitude from a HR professional. It implies that if you are off work due to a child’s illness that makes all those unpaid hours ok. I know lots of teachers who have lost pay due to childcare issues even though they have provided hundreds of unpaid hours to the school.