To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

They are counting on people dying or having dementia before the next elections. Thankfully pensioners have kids and grandkids who will never forget this nasty cons. Nasty while pledging kindness and with a bunch of arseholes supporting them. Before they called it scaremongering now they say so be it.

How will Labour improve the lives of the disabled? They quietly dropped their pledge to help the disabled, before the election.

they aren’t helping the elderly, punishing thousands of them in fact

they are penalising anyone who has succeeded in making money

they've ruined lives of thousands of children by making them change schools / by adding to over crowding of good state schools ensuring more of those who can’t afford to live near them, don’t get in (in itself a form of wealth selection, like private schools - but people don’t seem to talk about that 🤔)

So who have they helped so far? Overpaid train drivers. 👏🏻

anyone else with their philanthropic wand?

All they’ve done to date is sew deeper division. They’ve only just started.

People have very short memories. I'm assuming all those posters who are shocked / disgusted at pensioners having the winter fuel allowance taken off them, were also fuming about how numbers of food banks skyrocketed under the tories, people on disability benefits were demonised and living standards fell for people in work, - in fact, for quite a while, the only people who actually had a public sector pay rise were the pensioners.. even when those in jobs like nursing and health care were struggling to make ends meet. Were you also raging then?

No, of course you weren't.

Of all the pensioners I know, none have used the winter fuel allowance to pay for fuel. I'm also fairly certain that the energy companies (with their vast profits) should actually be helping those pensioners who will need it and will no longer get it. Why are we not expecting them to fill that gap rather than the government or the taxpayer?

Labour need economic growth to deliver on those things. It's not a given.

It depends on whether the tax regime encourages it. On that I'd say the tax burden is already high and we'll see what tax and spending cuts happen in the budget

Well because of labour both pensioners and disabled will be worse off.
I don't need to consider others by voting as I considered myself in life and we have many pensions in place for when we retire, however I didn't vote for the pensioners to be froze this winter.

Social trends aren't the government's fault.

We have an ageing population and health care, pensions and their energy bills and tv licences are becoming too much for working people to support alone as the proportion is changing. My grandma probably gets winter fuel at the moment and I know for a fact that she doesn't need it as she is always getting extensions, lending or giving her children large amounts of money. This money would be much better spent on the NHS or free breakfast clubs/childcare for my child so I can work.

And the fact that a lot of people in their 50s 'retired' post covid just because they wanted to and could afford it, including my parents. I'm already considering what easy jobs I could do in my late 60s (home admin maybe) as who knows how long our current generation will live and realistically we can't expect younger people to fund the growing number of older people.

This doesn't make any government evil. Look at demographic trends and it's a financial nightmare!

Exactly this

The pensioners in poverty will be eligible for the pension credit and will still get the WFA. Since the policy was announced more pensioners have applied for and got pension credit making them 1000s of pounds better off .

I don't remember this sort of outcry when the Tories abolished EMA for 16 and 17 year olds from low income.households or when they abolished child tax credits and other benefits for families.
I am a pensioner I have no problem losing the WFA. I don't need it any more than other households on low incomes.
I have also had pension increases that have been much higher than people in work for the last few years and I get free prescriptions and eye tests. I haven't got a huge pension but I have a higher disposable income than my children who have young families. I would much prefer any benefits were focused on them.

I nearly fell of my chair when I saw who the new pensions secretary is! She of several million pound houses and a fake working class accent, who pretends to be 'one of the people' whilst looking down on them. I had the displeasure of getting to know her through a children's group our youngests being the same age. A thoroughly unpleasant person, who will be remembered for making some pensioners feel colder and die quicker. I presume this is part of labours cost saving plan, less pensioners means less pensions and lower social care costs. Disgusting treatment of vunerable older people.

But you have to set the level somewhere. If it was set higher, we would be hearing about how all those that saved even more are getting punished.

I would disagree, many were too proud and simply did without what they couldn't afford - no heating, no fancy cars, no holidays abroad, made their own clothes, meals from scratch, no disposable income to spend on themselves etc. You need to have had "lived experience" to warrant your glib remarks.

We have state pensions but we are also a few pounds over the pension credit limit so won't get any help. We did use it to pay winter fuel bills. We have some savings built up over years of saving and will obviously go into them.
For those saying why haven't we got private pensions, well when I started work they were not a thing never heard of them and by the time we were being told to have our own pension I was divorced with two children if I had paid what they said I needed to into a pension we would have had no where to live and/or starved not everyone earns enough you know. Not all pensioners are sitting pretty, going on multiple holidays abroad etc some of us are just getting by.

Yeah, and me. Curiously, despite it being set in stone, I had to wait 6 extra years.🙄

they are penalising anyone who has succeeded in making money

So that means that we should all be entitled to some benefits, even though you have a decent income and maybe some savings?

Do you think the same when you see parents posting on mumsnet that earn over 100k claiming that they can't afford nursery because they aren't eligible for the funded hours?

Or parents that earn over £60k that can't claim child benefit and say they have no money?

In both these instances they earn double/triple than the average salary, should they get the same as families living in absolute poverty, because they are being unfairly penalised for being fortunate enough to earn more than many can imagine?

I wouldn't be surprised that many people posting saying that Labour are evil, are the same ones who turn around and say that you shouldn't have children if you can't afford them, or can't understand why both parents need to work and still struggle.

We I grew up in a council house in a rough northern town in the 70s and 80s, loads of people on the dole, including both parents. My dad still managed to go to the pub every night and my mum the bingo. I didn't know anyone back then 'too proud' to claim benefits. I suspect if anyone was they'd be regarded as a fool.

Oh dear, another person, who feels the need to have a go, just to get their point across, I’d have to care about your opinion to be bothered.

Yes and the reason why young people today cannot buy houses is because they eat too much avocado on toast, drink expensive coffee and must have a smart phone.

See, I can make generalisations too!

(not young and a home owner so no skin in the avocado game.)

@Scenicgirl "I would say illegal immigrants have been looked after far too well, for far too long to the detriment of other groups. Go to any city or town in the UK and look at how many homeless people are on the streets, do they get shelter, a warm bed, clothing/food allowance - no they bloody well don't so it's about time we started looking after our own people before wasting billions giving to people who will contribute a big fat zero to our society."

Local authorities have a statutory duty to house homeless people so they most definitely would get shelter, a warm bed, etc. if they present themselves

Don't be so hysterical.

That is t what anyone is actually saying except those against the WFA / Labour. What people are saying is that, yes, there is deprivation and poverty among pensioners, but that it's actually far less prevalent than it is amongst other groups. So better to address all poverty and deprivation than hand all pensioners a blanket benefit.

100% this

This is just the tip of the iceburg. I'm dreading the budget in October it's going to be hard on everybody.

@Panama2 and I will be in a similar situation to you in 5 years, when I'm 67. Just the full SP and a bit of additional SERPS. And until then my earning potential will be as restricted as it has been for the past 22 years what with having to also care for my now young adult disabled ds. Always as an LP.

Hopefully I'll be able to still pay my mortgage, but now also have to get in deep debt to fix my teeth as otherwise I'm completely unemployable.

Good times!

I don't recollect saying anything about why young people can't buy houses?
I feel very sorry for young people now as there is no incentive to work harder to get what you want, but you can't blame older people for that!!
If you read my post it was merely making a point about how some older people lived before benefits.
No need for you to be sarcastic, this is exactly what the government wants is for the young to go against the old, and who knows what delights they have lined up for your generation so I suggest you get back in your box!

I also grew up in a Northern town and yes, there were some men who chose to spend their money and time in the pubs/working men's clubs but there were also a lot of hard working people who wanted a better life for their children and did it the hard way.

My PIL are all for it. They don’t need it. They have always said that they see the (wealthy) people in their village getting this benefit and it makes them really cross. People with huge houses and massive gardens, who travel extensible and lead wonderful lives, getting tax payers money to boost their earnings. It’s wrong.

It should have been means tested but that is costly to administer. I haven’t read the full thread so I’m sure someone else has said this but there are other things they are doing to ensure those who need help the most get it. The changes to pensions more than cover the difference is my understanding.

As a tax payer I don’t want my taxes going to the wealthy. I want those in most need to get it. I’m sure some people will struggle more but no system is fool proof. Things will be ironed out and tough changes are needed, the economy tanked.

The only reason the Tories never did this was because their core voters come from that demographic.