To think that with over 1million pensioners in poverty, removing the WFA makes Labour the nasty party, who tell blatant lies?

[TealTraybake]

And hypocritical lies at that. Just a few months ago Labour ‘vowed to be the party for pensioners’

‘Nearly 1 million people aged over 66 in the UK are living in deprivation, according to government statistics, the highest number since comparable records began.
Labour, which analysed figures from Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) records, has vowed to be the party for pensioners, with plans to insulate millions of homes and reduce energy bills. It has also “committed to retaining” the triple lock which guarantees annual rises to the state pension’

I understand the WFA should be means tested - but the current threshold is far too low. Food prices have gone up. Energy prices have gone up. Some pensioners need that WFA 🥺.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/nearly-1m-uk-pensioners-deprivation-official-figures

I am also surprised that average pensioner outgoings would likely be the same or more

For working age people commuting and housing costs are the biggest expense and, if they have young children, childcare is a huge expense. Just having dependent children increases outgoings, and I guess that isn't the case for most pensioners. Having a cleaner or a gardner once or twice a week isn't a comparable cost to nursery or school holiday childcare, although obviously if daily care is needed in old age, that is a large expense

Even fuel bills, their heating bill might be more but families will likely use more electricity and water simply because there tends to be more people in a household?

Short and not so sweet. Retract and apologise, Starmer.

https://news.sky.com/video/winter-fuel-payment-carol-vorderman-demands-apology-from-keir-starmer-over-cut-13212450

State pension age.... should be set in stone when you are 18

It was set in stone when I was 18 - 60 for women, 65 for men.

There are no guarantees in life and any government can twiddle with the dates as and when.

Of course more elderly people die in the winter! its not just because they can't keep their homes warm. Yes, the cold can make you ill if are constantly exposed to it, as its a huge strain on the body.That's one factor, the other is because their are far more viral illnesses that spread winter, which is harder to recover from when your elderly and if you also have other comprbidities. I think you'd find death rates increase in winter for the whole population.

Not all pensioners are frail, elderly people that can't look after themselves.

We picture pensioners as 80yrs+ who struggle. Whereas there's a higher ratio of pensioners in the 60-75 age bracket where the majority will be able-bodied, own their home outright, and many are able to maintain their homes.

Those that need the WFA will still get it, and as always on life, there are those in the middle that won't qualify for it but could do with it.

I think if we cannot debate this topic without resorting to insults, it probably explains why as a country we never seem to get anywhere...

Those that need the WFA will still get it, and as always on life, there are those in the middle that won't qualify for it but could do with it.

It's not the middle. It's the pensioners who are on a tiny amount over the threshold. Where one person on around £12k will get it but the other won't.

OK, there will always be those just above the threshold.

I agree the threshold should be higher but where do we stop? Someone said £16k, which isn't much more but there will always be someone struggling somewhere that misses the cut off

The poorest pensioners will still get it.

it absolutely should be means tested.

The cut off they’ve used is probably not right but more complex means testing would cost money defeating the object.

Exactly. Pensioners typically have very few expenses compared to younger generations who are struggling with high mortgages/rent, childcare and high commuting costs.

Even 1k a months is more than enough to cover all essential bills and expenses. If they aren't putting the heating on, then that's a choice. They are simply choosing to spend money elsewhere. I don't spend anywhere near 1k a month on food and bills (after mortgage has gone out).

Regardless, the working age population simply cannot afford to keep paying more and more for handouts, which the vast majority of pensioners don't actually need.

Well they'll struggle less if the cut off is higher than £12k

The Tories would've gone after the young and disabled again, and loads of pensioners vote for them knowing that that's what they do in order to protect their core voters, so are fine with it.

You sound very bitter.Ageism works both ways, everything you’re saying shows, loathing, lack of understanding towards people younger than yourself.
Unfortunately, many people, are aware what the DM are really like.I used to buy the newspaper, many moons ago, stopped when it went online, due to it being biased, the articles are click bait, to rile up readers.The comment section is disgusting.I get the news, from Sky, you should try it, l find its good to have a wider grasp, of what is going on in the world.

You are too wise in your practice of checking multiple news sources to understand nuance and different points of view. You are a beacon to us all.

If an income of £12,000 is considered wealthy for Mrs Jones on her first day of retirement, then it should also be considered wealthy for the day before she retires, right?

Ok, let’s just leave it there.

Surely the same can be said of bus drivers, in fact they have it much worse as they have to deal with many rude and obnoxious passengers, drunk passengers and those that are smacked out of their heads on drugs. I personally think bus drivers deserve more than train drivers.

We do not speak of the Truss creature, an abomination and source of national shame of that degree should not be referred to unless absolutely necessary.

I don’t think she was worse than Boris though - personally I think she was bad but because she was a woman the media hounded her more. Can you imagine a female politician involved is the same scandals as BJ???? They’d be hounded from office by our dear press!!

Moneywoo

It may seem like a small amount of money to you and me but for people with very little it may be the difference between managing and not managing. Sometimes it is just the last straw that breaks the camel's back. Organisations such as the NHS are already saying that they expect to have more calls on their services this winter. I hope I am wrong but I do believe that some people will die prematurely because of this.

Why on earth should rich pensioners get the winter fuel payment? Beggars belief!

And I'm not saying the cut off shouldn't be higher than they have proposed but to suggest it should be a universal benefit received by millionaires and poor people alike is insane.

I wonder how many pensioners thar are losing this allowance voted Labour 🤣🤣

Is anyone saying that income makes someone wealthy?

I’m just pointing out that if you have that income as a single pensioner then it’s more than you’d have as a single non pensioner claiming benefits and with no other income so suggesting (as you did previously) that if it’s ok for pensioners to lose the winter fuel allowance as they can afford to it should be ok for everyone else is a bit silly really. Pensioners already can get more than non pensioner single people/couples without taking the allowance into account so clearly many people have absolutely been fine with non pensioners having to live on less.

I actually think more universal benefits and higher overall taxation for everyone (not just the top earners) would be a better approach but that’s even more unpopular than cutting the wfa so it’s highly unlikely to happen.

@Whammyammy I'm soon to retire and voted labour.

Some people struggle to understand that some of us vote in ways that improve society; the NHS, social care, children's lives, the disabled rather than vote purely to service our own pockets. It must be a strange concept to many Tory voters!