To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

[feesss]

we went to look round a school this morning and we obviously asked about VAT and the lady showing us round said there has been a challenge this week so it may not happen? Is anyone aware of this? I can’t see much online about it?

“School breakfast clubs delayed until 2026
Labour puts back flagship policy as concerns grow that schools do not have the capacity to run the clubs”
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/school-breakfast-clubs-delayed-until-2026-shsqxwbkl

“There are growing concerns within the sector that many schools are not ready to introduce the scheme, even if the funding is there to pay for it.
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Research by the New Britain Project, a think tank, found that many in the sector felt that the changes were being rushed through without “the staffing and clarity needed” to make it a success.
One academy chain said that breakfast clubs must not be an initiative that the government “expects schools to sort out with just a few months’ notice”. Another said that they would put “further pressures on school finances and staffing”.”
(…)

The very sad thing in all of this is that us tiger mums on MN seem to know more about education on the whole than the so called experts or Ministers in charge! It is shocking!! Across the board. Lacking in common sense, planning, foresight, all of it!
Where are the grown ups in the room?

https://www.isc.co.uk/media-enquiries/news-press-releases-statements/isc-ceo-urges-government-to-reconsider-its-approach-to-taxing-send-families-and-schools/

“James Murray told the House of Commons on Monday that independent SEND schools where at least half of pupils have an education, health and care plan (EHCP) specifying that their special educational needs “can be met only in a private school” will remain exempt from business rates under the new legislation. But the Treasury minister went on to acknowledge that not all independent SEND schools would meet this definition, and would therefore face business rates. This has prompted warnings of closures, higher costs for parents and a deepening SEND crisis.
Speaking to iNews, Ms Robinson said: “The government has conceded that some independent special schools will be affected by the choice to create a two-tier charity system. We are deeply concerned about the knock-on effect on SEND provision in the state system and on the young people whose education will be disrupted as a result of this policy. The government is levelling down in one area of SEND before it has levelled up elsewhere, with children as collateral damage. We urge the government to reconsider its approach to taxing SEND families and schools.” “

https://inews.co.uk/news/the-next-steps-before-private-school-vat-on-fees-can-start-3403185?srsltid=AfmBOoq1JIhCn1XMnxjakpg4hF830MSgiD2XWOXE4R8Hug29jEaAoUmx

Sounds like the letter before action will be served in the coming weeks and the Government has 14 days to respond or ask for an extension, if it is a complex matter… clearly Labour think it is a slam dunk and will have zero problem responding in detail within 14 days.

Harming private schools does not increase “opportunities for higher education and training for the poorest kids in our country” though. It does the opposite. It means that children pushed out of their private schools will access the better state schools, including the academically selective ones. By doing this, they take up state school places which would otherwise have been available to the children you are hoping to help.

Yes where exactly are the grown ups? Asking posters if they actually have any GCSEs because they have different views is hardly grown up behaviour.

It is relevant though, you would assume that people who support education taxation wouldn’t value education.

The issue is exactly that - the assumptions made. The poster clearly cares about education or she wouldn’t be so psssionste about WP. It’s just a different perspective.

I suspect you don’t don’t care too much about widening participation or you wouldn’t be suggesting that VAT should be applied to university fees. That would make the barriers even higher for underprivileged DC.

Nobody who cares about education would support an education tax, it’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

I don't support taxing any form of education. My point about university is that if you are going to end the principle of not taxing education then it should be applied fairly. To be honest Phillipson set the age of VAT up to 19 so it could very possibly draw in some uni students anyway. Same as it draws in some nursery pupils.
Destroy a universal point of principle that education is zero rated and you can not them justify only applying it to some forms of education but not others. That's why there are legal challenges.

The policy technically does cover those attending university until they’re 19 paying VAT. Admittedly, that’s an error in rushing in the policy without any scrutiny.

Also i don't believe we should just put more people through university. Widening participation shouldn't just mean university, it should include technical and vocational pathways too. University isn't suitable for many kids.

Of course University isn't suitable for many kids, whether they be privately or state educated. WP is not about just putting more people through university. It is about encouraging motivated and academic DC to apply and access high ranking universities because they are worthy of a place at the table despite their socio-economic background.

Yet the kids at the bottom still get left behind. Attacking indy schools doesn't do anything to address that.

Yes yes you are a wonderful person, now what does this have to do with implementing an education tax and forcing kids out of schools? Or is it enough to justify any policy or action now by losely associating it with vague equality dogma? Don’t answer that last question, the answer is no.

In any event, this is a landmark case and will be very interesting, assuming the Labour Party are brave enough to fully defend themselves in court, rather than come up with some excuse to delay the VAT. I am not sure they can anymore, because it is meant to be implemented in January, so it is going to be lose and amend and refunds to schools?
How exactly is it going to work if they lose? Especially if they have already taken the taxation and some schools have already started setting of previous VAT claims?
If they lose, this is likely to end up a shambolic clusterfuck?

The courts may comment in some ways on making the VAT HR compatible, like by applying it to all forms of education. What then? Will they actually try and force through some dodgy amendment to the Human Rights Act? Is that possible?

As far as I'm aware nobody said it did. I believe the poster was saying that WP is where her passion lies. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

Do some posters on this thread have such tunnel vision that they can't appreciate someone having a priority that is bigger than VAT on school fees? The poster wasn't loosely associating it. She was bringing a sense of perspective, which many would agree is much needed. And what's with the "yes yes you are a wonderful person"? If you want to raise the subject of virtue signalling, there is plenty of it on this thread about SEN. I sometimes wonder how many were so passionate about the plight of SEN kids before it suited their anti-VAT agenda.

Legally the position would be as I described a few days ago on the thread:

The change proposed involves amending primary legislation to remove the VAT exemption. That needs an Act of Parliament. Currently the proposal is in clauses 47-49 of the Finance Bill - the budget.
If Parliament passes the legislation, but the courts subsequently decide that the policy is not compatible with the right to education then they can issue a "declaration of incompatibility" under s.4 HRA. That declaration does not invalidate the legislation itself though (s.4(6)) - ie it does not restore the VAT exemption. The provision removing the exemption remains good law until parliament amends it (which can happen rapidly via a fast-track procedure - s.10).
In other words the government would not have broken the law (certainly not domestic UK law) and anyone left out of pocket doesn't have any other remedy I'm afraid.
(There's no right under the HRA to any sort of interim/temporary declaration, and it wouldn't serve any purpose. The courts have no power to make injunctions or orders against an Act of Parliament - in our constitution Acts trump everything else.)

The government could in theory amend the UK HRA, but that would not prevent a ruling from the Court of Human Rights against them which would be the next step. And call me naive, but among the many improvements after the election is that we now have a government that respects the rule of law, not one that sees it as an inconvenience to be subverted, so I am very confident that they will comply with any court rulings.

For many of us this isn’t about an anti VAT agenda you know?! It’s about playing with children’s lives to further your own political agenda and career and it’s abhorrent, and it’s even worse when vulnerable kids are involved. Furthermore, we also massively object with undermining the HR Act which directly mirrors the Convention and just are full on fed up with parties trying to move us away from anything European. And just generally fed up with the anti elitism for the sake of it, when in reality it simply translates to poorer people getting even poorer. As the very rich always have options elsewhere anyway. It’s the full on self harm this country seems to be exercising that annoys us.

Okay Tiger Mum.

“And call me naive, but among the many improvements after the election is that we now have a government that respects the rule of law, not one that sees it as an inconvenience to be subverted, so I am very confident that they will comply with any court rulings.”

@AuntyBumBum - thank you. I think that is right as regards international conventions (like Chagos and as regards Israel), but there were some question marks over inconsistencies last summer and hence the two tier Keir etc and some worse offenders were released etc to lock up some hate crime speech etc. so we will have to see.

@AuntyBumBum - the problem is the Government has an incentive to delay so I am not sure about the no repercussions/damages. Surely they can’t be seen to deliberately delay and enrich? That is a fundamental principle of common law.

Thanks, now what does this have to do with implementing an education tax and forcing kids out of schools?