To ask if anyone is clued up on the challenge this week to VAT on school fees?

[feesss]

we went to look round a school this morning and we obviously asked about VAT and the lady showing us round said there has been a challenge this week so it may not happen? Is anyone aware of this? I can’t see much online about it?

Here you go @Morph22010

https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/isc-to-pursue-legal-action-over-vat

“Further to the release here today from the Independent Schools Council regarding their proposed legal challenge to the Government's decision to apply VAT to independent school fees, Kingsley Napley partner (and Head of Public Law), Sophie Kemp (who is advising the ISC) comments:
“Removing the VAT exemption strikes at the heart of the right to education protected by Article 2 Protocol 1 of the ECHR. It penalises independent education by imposing a tax that applies to no other form of education. Levying a financial penalty on independent schools will make it impossible for some children to attend the school that meets their individual needs, undermining the freedom of choice the Convention guarantees.
"It is also discriminatory, and will hinder access to education for pupils with SEN who are without an EHCP, those attending independent faith schools, and female pupils who attend single sex girls' independent schools. They are all at risk of being left without provision in the State sector." ”

Quite a clear summary of the grounds.

It penalises independent education by imposing a tax that applies to no other form of education.

Suggests a way to comply with the law is to apply the tax to all forms of education then ?

@SerendipityJane I don't think even Labour hate Ind Sch that much that they would apply it to nursery, university, music and sports lessons, wraparound clubs etc - not because they don't want to just, because it would suddenly affect far more voters and be deeply unpopular. Bit like an income tax rise which would have been a far more effective and fairer way of raising a much larger and useful sum of money across all service users. That might actually have rasied enough to address some of the issues with CAMHS and SEND in state that causes parents to opt out in the first place.

While true, it doesn't change the underlying fact.

I can't help but be reminded of the equality that women had to suffer when pension ages were made equal across the sexes.

But they are without an ehcp as they have never applied for an ehcp (or parents have and have given up on the process), if they are without an ehcp they can still apply for one of their needs can’t be met in mainstream without support. Paying for independent isn’t their only option as regards the sen system do they aren’t being denied an education because of that. As I said before I know in practise the situation is very diff as the system is broken but fundamentally they can apply for an ehcp

Surely this is not a serious suggestion?

This is 2024. I have no idea about serious or not anymore. In a land of Rwandan asylum and Liz Truss as Prime Minister, who knows what is comedy anymore ?

I don't know how this would stand up in a law case but surely if it can be demonstrated that the theoretical alternative to In Sch is an EHCP and associated support but that acquiring one is too costly / time consuming and drawn out (especially given the time critical nature of a child's educational years) then it would be a pretty weak argument. The whole point is that parents have seen those crucial years running out fighting the system and so they have felt they had no choice but to jump ship where they could.

Some further irony in the matter - Bridget Phillipson is also

“Minister for Women and Equalities
The Minister for Women and Equalities has responsibility for:
promoting equality of opportunity for everyone, and reducing negative disparities
strategic oversight of the government’s equality policy, for women, ethnicity, disability and LGBT+
overall sponsorship of the Social Mobility Commission and Equality and Human Rights Commission
overview of the overarching equalities legislative framework”

How does that sit with single sex girls independent schools?

Human Rights Commission?!

I suppose many of us thought that the debacle of Tory rule: Rwanda, brexit, Liz Truss etc had come to an end....but no ...Keir is elected to great relief and announces "hold my beer" (excuse the co-incidence) " but I am going to erode your human rights further & drive an even harder brexit by imposing a tx on education"....the debacle is just continuing

It is almost like no matter who you vote for, the government always get in.

Liz Truss was prime minister in 2022.

That was an example of modern unseriousness. Others are available.

the right to education IS a human right. The right for your mummy and daddy to save some cash on tax for the service they pay is NOT a human right.

I think it is simply a question of real lack of talent in Government. If you look at the top CEOs of certain companies who have the brains and management skills to run a huge international business - that is what we really need at the top level of Government.
Instead we get those claiming to be serious economists with a bit of retail banking experience. It is a joke. They go into politics too early with no real exposure to how things actually work in the real world, at the top level, waving their Oxford PPE degree - which is most definitely not proof of competence, far from it. It increasingly appears to be the opposite.
It must be because it is difficult to get elected and a hassle to be there. So it attracts a certain type of person, who unfortunately judging by the last 15 years is seriously and fundamentally lacking in talent, moral compass, common sense and actual proper brains.

@Lookslikemeemaw - did you pass your GCSEs?!

The law says an ehcp needs assessment should take 20 weeks from request to issuing final.

"Should"

Exactly in practise it takes much longer, our la averages a year plus but shouldn’t the breach of human rights be the fact that this law isn’t being followed? If by some miracle the sen system was sorted out and timescales and assessments were being done in accordance with the law (unlikely in practise I know) then would the human rights arguement re vat on fees for sen still stack up

If the LA breaches the statutory timescales, parents can force the LA to act, including via judicial review if necessary. Parents don’t have to accept the process taking over a year.

How long does it take to get a judicial review?

@DdraigGoch for breach of the statutory EHCP timescales, not as long as many think. Sometimes, but not as often as in the past, LAs pull their finger out when parents threaten JR directly to the DCS. When that doesn’t work, for many, especially in cases of failure to adhere to the timescales, a pre-action letter works. If it doesn’t, and you need to proceed to JR proceedings themselves, that takes longer. But not as long as many think, you can request interim order and few get to an actual hearing. SOSSEN explain more here.

Our la used to take notice of the ipsea pre action JR threat letter and pull their finger out, now it doesn’t speed up the process at all they write back snd say that there is a national shortage of ed psychs and that they aren’t able to do any quicker as thst would mean another child would have to wait longer. You would have to take them to actual judicial review to get them to do quicker now which isn’t a quick process either. They currently average over 52 weeks from request to issue and that not counting tribunal wait time if there’s a refusal at any stage

@Morph22010 the IPSEA model letter isn’t a pre-action letter. It is ‘just’ a letter reminding of the law and warning you will take it further including to JR.

A pre-action letter is different and more technical. Unless a parent knows what they are doing, they should not attempt to write it themselves.

A pre-action letter is more likely to work than the IPSEA model letter.

Even if it doesn’t, JR proceedings themselves will and don’t take a year.

Sorry used wrong terminology should have said pre pre action letter. My son has had an ehcp since 2017 and in those days the ipsea letter was all it took. I know you can get a pre action letter through sossen fairly reasonably.