Identity Cards: yes or no?

[Papyrophile]

Gerard Darminin, French Home Secretary equivalent, has said that the UK is making itself a migrant target because we have no national officially issued ID card proving entitlement.

I, a very ordinary citizen, already have an NHS number issued at birth, and a National Insurance number sent to me at 16, neither of which has changed. I also have a passport number, due for renewal next year, a driver's license and a Government Gateway number for my occasional exchanges with officialdom.

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

No they kept them until May 1952.

Gosh, that was more than 70 years ago. Things have changed. How old are you? Saying it again, I am 68.

WW2 ended 11 years before I was born, and I am an OAP, and you guys are still harking back?

Very, very gently because I would not wish to disrupt your bubble, but the world has moved on in almost 80 years. Some good, some less so.

I wish we could get ID cards. Many people don't have driving licenses or passports. I always wonder what they do.

I have a driving licence without a photo and I can't get it updated without sending off my passport. Why would I do that when it could go missing or get lost and I'd be up a gum tree. Hence the reason I have a driving licence without a photo.

You do know that people survive organ transplants, for example?

At which point there was a massive campaign to get rid of them because they were being abused to restrict civil liberties. A campaign led by Winston Churchill.

I was about to say there’s no reason for it to be any different to the cost off a passport, bar a few pennies saved in it needing 48 pages or however many are in a passport now.

I agree, an optional one such as in France, where you need some form of government ID, but not necessarily an ID card, is fine. Anything more is a slippery slope. We are not all the property of the state after all!

Introducing a compulsory ID card is what will lead to gradual but constant erosion of the freedoms we currently have. Step 1, make having an ID cars compulsory. Step 2, we have to carry them, so we can be asked to show them to the police when we’re stopped for breaking the law. Step 3 The police are given the right to demand them on request from anyone at any time. Step 4 you get arrested because your ID card has incorrect info tagged against it.

I have lived in countries where I have needed an ID card, and have religiously carried it with me. But never actually needed it. I have lived in countries like France where it’s not compulsory but it is useful I don’t have any other government ID.

But, I cannot think of anything I have done in the UK in last 20 years that would have been easier with an ID card. The biggest pain nowadays is anything financial, be that buying a house, opening investment / savings accounts, moving large amounts of money around. And that all about showing where the money has come from, not who you are. The ID stuff is checked electronically in the background almost always nowadays IME. Only if there’s a discrepancy do they ask for more information. And any national ID card system will always have discrepancies as well.

I know several people of different ages who don't have any official photographic evidence can't afford to drive and have never been abroad.
Personally would be ok with a card and I've also mused on how simple identification with a dna register would be, but also realise the uproarvit would cause.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me and as good as some of the other reprehensible authoritarian shite suggestions here.

No thanks. What's it for? I already have a ton of unique numbers for me.

Having a card won't stop illegals or make things easier etcetera. Anyway, it's mot very environmentally friendly is it? And it will get hacked or faked. More money more effort. Will the homeless carry them? How will these souls get them and how will they keep them safe?

I have nothing to hide so I don't need a card to prove it. Let's spend spare money on not taxing money already taxed ( pensions) and give back the fuel allowance.
Or use the cash to work towards changing the law so that anyone here illegally gets deported from our prisons.

Can't let such piffle pass un-remarked

Realistically, no one will be able to live a normal life without a smart phone in a few years time, so that's not a hill worth dying on.

Nobody is worried this lays the infrastructure that can will quickly evolve into a social credit system which could limit access to everything we take for granted now?

Edited to add that precisely pointing things out like the fact that it's lack of political will to tackle high levels of migration that is the problem in the UK, its actively welcomed, are the sorts of things that would make life very difficult, nigh impossible. Too many people trust the state to not fuck up or abuse this. Its guaranteed they would and the consequences are serious.

Interesting that few (I haven't RTFT) have questioned the original premise - that a costly and unasked for ID card scheme will somehow magically reduce the attraction of the UK. Or somehow improve it's capability to deal with immigration. Neither of which is a proven fact.

The main reason the UK remains a popular destination for all sorts of immigrants - legal and illegal - is more complicated than "we don't do ID cards" and much more likely to centre around the fact that we insist on speaking English (a fact a French minister is really not going to mention are they ?).

ID cards are a thing in isolation. Once you have them, unless you have laws saying you can be stopped at any time and asked for your ID, then you really have to ask what the point is. And unlike a driving licence, where the nice police officer gives you 7 days to produce it at a police station, an ID card will need to be produced on the spot. That'll be fun. Plus the powers to arrest and punish anyone not carrying ID, Because - once again - there's no point otherwise.

Strikes me not so much as "a local shop for local people" but "a simple idea for simple people".

Still, if people insist, here's where we left off last time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006

The eagle-eyed amongst you will have spotted it was a Labour brainchild. Although I use that word very very loosely.

I have dual nationality British and another EU country, where I live.
I have 2 passports, 1 driving licence of country I live in and 1 ID card of country I live in. It is no big deal. I think I have been asked for the ID card twice in the time I have had it.
The UK used to have ID cards, I am not sure why there appears to be such resistance. Anyone, who has a mobile phone, is able to be tracked, so why not have an official form of identification?

Some record with combined info such as NI number, country of birth/domiciliary status, passport and driving licence details would cover everything, and would help those who don’t drive or hold passports. Like lots of us, I’ve been asked for proof of who I am by prospective employers (the Civil Service wanted quite in depth info) and financial institutions.

It would be useful for the NHS, in other countries non residents pay for treatment, why not make it simple to check here? Also helpful for employers and landlords.

I’m utterly opposed to the rhetoric about immigration. Unlike most people on here, I don’t have a current passport or driving licence and it’s a real nuisance- I had to get proof of identity to vote in the recent election, having missed out on voting since the requirement to show identification was introduced. I’m in favour of identity cards

The UK used to have ID cards, I am not sure why there appears to be such resistance.

It was because they wanted a massssssive database behind it with every single possible piece of data held on you in one place. Stopped by police ? They'll know your medical history. Now back in 2006 there had never been a data breach in the history of computing anywhere ever. So it's a mystery as to why the government assurances that it would be "unhackable" were derided by experts. These days, of course, we know experts are full of shit Maybe we should try again.

Culturally countries in Europe might in effect not use it much.

In the UK we'd go nuts, with people having it depends to fart. It would be used and abused by authority.

Cos culturally we wouldn't be able to help ourselves.

What utter nonsense. I presume you dont use a mobile phone or a debit or credit card or sign up for a tesco club card ...

All your data is used every day. Surely it makes sense to have everything linked on a card/app that can be used for ID.

The country i live in has id cards. Its simple and safe. It doesnt impact on your freedom anymore than having a national insurance card or a driving licence and is simple for the average person to have everything to hand in one card/app

In the UK we'd go nuts, with people having it depends to fart. It would be used and abused by authority.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3333366/Half-of-councils-use-anti-terror-laws-to-spy-on-bin-crimes.html

Yes. People who think it would be fine here because it works elsewhere are missing the point.

As well as what you describe here, it would also probably get hived out to Serco or similar. It wouldn't do half the things people want it to, and it also wouldn't even function as a deterrent to undocumented people living in the UK. They'd get nicked etc, but also the sectors that rely on undocumented workers would continue to exist regardless. It's not going away that easily.

Yes, I'm in favour.