To think the penalties for term time absence is ridiculous..

[JKbowling]

I got this in my email inbox today, sent to all parents and guardians.

"Failure to safeguard a child's education" appearing on your DBS, really?

As for term time holidays. If a family can't afford to pay for their one measly UK break per year to be had during the 6 weeks holidays (because the prices are hiked right up and become unaffordable) how does school suppose said family is going to pay the fine?

For children with autism this is a nightmare.
My children all started worrying three weeks before the end of term because the structure went to pieces and became unpredictable.

I have no issue with the end of term wind down (which all schools I’ve had involvement with did), but at least understand why anxiety related absences increase.

My DS’s old HT allowed me to take him out for the last week of Christmas term as it was so stressful for him. This was 10 years ago. Guessing this kind of thoughtful approach will not be allowed now.

Is it a poor and immature attitude to not want to attend a series of events? Some parents values walking to church and lunch, a career fayre for those not expected to look for work for many years, or competitive sports, just as some children do, others will think it’s an exhausting waste of time. Why does it amaze you that parents don’t base their opinions on how hard schools try? It’s how valuable the experience is to their child they rate, as they should.

It's fine to not want to attend them. I don't even care if they don't attend. But to say they're pointless is pathetic. They have value even if you don't see it for your child.

It's not all about you and your child anyway, schools are providing opportunities for each child. Homeschool your child if you want education perfectly tailored to your child.

Career fayres are valuable even in year 10. If a child is interested in a certain career, they may need a certain grade in a subject to get on a course or they can be advised on out of school activities/volunteering/part time work etc that may help get them there. Other kids will have no idea of what is out there and seeing the variety of careers out there can help. They also generally get kids thinking about next steps and can make kids knuckle down.

Quite. Some of the posts on this thread are very naive.

Yes, and I wonder if it means social workers can come to investigate?

Yes, totally agree.
My sen DS was out of school for 2 years on 'authorised absence"

No skin off their nose but absolutely detrimental to my DS.

Similarly, if the standard of ‘debate’ here is not up to your exacting standards, you could also go and find another platform better suited to your superior skills.

You didn’t actually challenge that posters perspective: you told them they were “losing” the argument.

My kids school has had these rules since they've been at secondary. They're reworded in line with all as schools now, but no different to previous years. It's not holidays that bothers me about this, it's genuine sickness and the fact that they coerce, subtly threaten and practically force parents to send in sick kids, illness spreads and they take no accountability for it.

I was hassled non stop when my son was really ill (one of at least 7 in his form) and all seems to have stemmed from one sick child who get getting sent in and seemingly was either never sent home or parents didn't pick up.

We attended urgent care on a Friday evening, then ended up at the GP on the Tuesday as things were getting worse, so I even had evidence of medical appointments and medications, still wasn't good enough. They said an attendance visit would be arranged (bear in mind this was the first and only time off sick he'd had in 2 years) and I said they needn't think they're poking around my house into his bedroom to gawp at him if that was the point of it. I started receiving these letters and calls on the Tuesday, he has literally been off since day before so the first letter had been sent on his first day off sick - with medical evidence from Urgent care emailed to them.

If your kids school didn't have these "new" rules in place before now, buckle up!

I don't think the fines are large enough. It needs to be more of a deterrent.

Swearing is down to poorly educated people. They can't think of another word so swear.

We self cater every year on holiday and often in airbnbs that need cleaning at the end.... Do you think my kids don't think we had a holiday /family time because we cooked for ourselves 😂

What you are talking about is purely how parents feel, it's the parents that crave the holiday, and they are willing to negatively impact their kids education to do it.
Anyone who can afford to pay the fine could afford to go on a simple camping holiday during the school holidays, they just don't want to, no two ways about it.
As others have pointed out, you could easily pull kids out 3 days before end of term, missing 6 sessions, and you'd get a cheaper price

Your headline implies that you were on holiday when ‘they did’ grammar.

This isn't a good idea, because at the moment the fine is low enough that it doesn't really create problems with challenging it. For most people, the amount is small enough to pay it so it goes away. While it's a bad system, it works somewhat because it's only at the level of an irritant.

If you increase fines to the level where they function as a deterrent, as well as the obvious problems with alienation etc, it also creates an incentive for parents to challenge fines when they don't now. Creating and administering systems like that takes resources. It also means there's more potential for a case to end up in court, which we really don't want because the court system is creaking already.

I’m fine here, but thanks for checking .

the challenge I’ve made repeatedly is that identifying faults in the educational system doesn’t mean you get to ignore the rules without consequence. Yes, the educational system should be held accountable when they fail to meet children’s needs. But parents should also be held accountable for the role they play in children’s attendance. There are legitimate reasons a child cannot attend, which need to be allowed for, but cheap holidays is not a legitimate reason.

Changing schools is not a simple process. For an anxious child it’s often not an option at all because of increased anxiety. Decent schools that may stand a chance of working are usually over subscribed.
There are few special school places.
Not every parent is able to HE due to work. I am lucky enough to be able to HE my youngest, but it’s not easy and is not a choice for many, although with these new rules I think HE numbers will shoot up.
I don’t know many parents who could afford private school, so that’s not an option to most.

Before taking one of my older dc out of school we had drs notes to support us but the education welfare officer didn’t care and still threatened us with a fine.
Many options are not available to those with SN.

During Covid lessons were live streamed, we had access to online schooling - why isn’t that an option for pupils who are unable to attend every day? Seems like yet another government organisation that does not keep up with the times or the needs of the people.

Schools are not supporting these children if the first hurdle (getting into school) cannot be overcome. More children are traumatised by school than ever before, but the only option given to support can only be accessed by going into the very place that has caused the problem in the first place. It’s like saying to a wheelchair user that they can have this wheelchair if they walk up a mountain to get it.

Maybe they had too much time off school?

The Magistrates Court referral, and the offence appearing on a DBS check is only for the third offence though- so you’d have to do it three times in three years for this to happen.

Even if someone was absolutely determined to take their kids out of school for a holiday every year (and I really don’t think anyone needs a holiday every year, still less one they can’t afford in the school hols) just have the third one slightly later in the year that the first, and this won’t happen. Repeat this on a rolling basis.

But honestly, I think this is all about people trying to have something they can’t actually afford - if you can’t afford the holiday in the school hols, you can’t afford it until they’re grown up.

We disappeared off on holiday the last week of term too. It’s very much endless films and games in our school for the last week. We are in Scotland though where you email the school and receptionist tells you to have a lovely time and that’s the end of that.

I think schools would be better concentrating on persistent absence rather than the odd holiday by children with an otherwise good attendance record.

And fwiw I agree that “family time” doesn’t need to be on holiday - it can be at home, potentially with day trips, or on a cheaper holiday if you really can’t relax at home.

I think it's ridiculous, I'm in Wales and our primary and secondary school allow up to 5 school days per year for holidays (at headteacher's discretion and up to year 9 secondary).
I don't see what the problem is. A primary school aged child going abroad for a week in June is going to get a great life experience and it won't make any difference to their education.
Also some parents literally can't afford a holiday at all unless they go in term time. Children learn loads on holiday, it's not all about school learning.
Even in secondary- my DD's friend (yr 8) missed the last 3 days of the year to fly to Canada to see family, her parents saved a fortune on flights and they weren't doing any actual school work that week anyway.
A holiday is completely different to kids missing school every Friday because their parents can't be arsed.

But that in itself is a vicious circle. People fail to attend their appointments, which make wait lists go up, which yes then nhs does fail to provide care in a timely way.

Our patient satisfaction scores are very high, our families say they dont move their GP when they move house so they can stay under care of our team (which is linked to their gps location) as they sre so happy with the care provided. They aren't missing their appointments with us because they don't trust us, they aren't missing them because our level of provision is poor, they miss them because they forget, because they know if they miss it we have to just give them another as we are paediatrics and can't discharge children based on parents not bringing them.

I was also at school in 80's and 90's. I cannot recall any child going for holidays in termtime, many didn't get a holiday at all, I was one of very few who went away every year. Most families of primary age had only 1 working parent as there wasn't the wrap around care and holiday clubs there are now and often couldn't afford any holiday. If they did, it was a few days on the south coast. I was the first of my friends to go on a plane when I went to Spain aged 9. There wasn't the sense of entitlement that there is now. There wasn't the need to fine for termtime holidays as they rarely hapenned.
There wouldn't be a need to bring in fines for termtime holidays now if they didn't happen as much as they do. Those that really have a genuine one off reason, such as a family wedding abroad are being penalised due to those that take holidays in termtime several times a year.

My daughters old head said she used to approve occasional termtime trips in exceptional circumstances for those with otherwise high attendance. But suddenly everyone had an exceptional circumstance, and she got abuse when she refused those which were clearly not exceptional, so she had to put a stop to it all, which is a shame for those with genuine one off need, that they lost out due to a few entitled rude parents

And that is an excellently expressed point and good contribution to the thread, and I mostly agree with it; telling someone they are losing the argument, criticising them and suggesting they leave the site is not quite so constructive.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM

I quite like swearing, not all the time but there are times it feels appropriate.

There is online schooling, my friends daughter access it, it's a group of all online schooled children, rather than classes being live steamed though.

Live streaming in school classes wouldn't always work, there are a lot of pair or group activities which the child at home wouldn't be able to access, so purpose made online schooling with a dedicated teacher works better.

Yep. Clearly

I was also at school in 80's and 90's. I cannot recall any child going for holidays in termtime, many didn't get a holiday at all, I was one of very few who went away every year. Most families of primary age had only 1 working parent as there wasn't the wrap around care and holiday clubs there are now and often couldn't afford any holiday. If they did, it was a few days on the south coast. I was the first of my friends to go on a plane when I went to Spain aged 9. There wasn't the sense of entitlement that there is now. There wasn't the need to fine for termtime holidays as they rarely hapenned.

The UK very much had persistent absence issues during the period you mention, however. That's what the Blair administration were trying to address. I agree with you that people went on holiday less than they do now, but the cultural norms about school attendance were different to those that were brought in with great difficulty in the 2000s and 2010s.

There have been quite a few posts on this thread essentially asking why people don't behave like they live in a different decade and/or third world country. The answer to that is that they don't behave like that because they don't live in a different society, they live in this one. Humans respond to social cues. We have a society that values travel, and also where the population were shown not very long ago that school was a nice to have, something that didn't have to happen if there was a good enough reason. That lesson stuck. And here we are!