To think the penalties for term time absence is ridiculous..

[JKbowling]

I got this in my email inbox today, sent to all parents and guardians.

"Failure to safeguard a child's education" appearing on your DBS, really?

As for term time holidays. If a family can't afford to pay for their one measly UK break per year to be had during the 6 weeks holidays (because the prices are hiked right up and become unaffordable) how does school suppose said family is going to pay the fine?

I know,I don't remember it being this bad when my two were in school.

The olde system where parents could genuinely request term time off was better because there was an opportunity for dialogue. It gave schools more voice on when was deeply disruptive (e.g. assessment weeks) over general inconveience. It was healthier for home-school relationships than the blanket no and fines through the LA.

I don't take mine on holidays in term time. We don't have the financial or workplace pressures to necessitate it. We can afford the ££££ that it costs for modest UK holidays. It is often cheaper to go abroad.

I have however got a child with an underlying condition that flares up and can take a while to settle that has some years hammered his attendance.
We did have it when we'd had a winter sun holiday entirely within a half-term. DS was in a flare but the week in a warm, dry climate really gave him a boost while we were away. The moment we were back in cool, damp air, he flared up again. I got him into school the first day back, but couldn't stabilise his condition and we ended up with a 999 call. I couldn't get him out of the house for the rest of the week. If school hadn't seen the state he was in there's the danger that they could have decided that we'd been on holiday, been unauthorised and fined. As it was between that health condition and a seperate significant health issue that arose, his attendance was poor and we ended up with genuine illnesses being marked as unauthorised even though it was abundantly clear that he was a child struggling with poor health.
Despite all that and his underlying specific learning difficulty, he did meet his targets at the end of the year.

It did sour my feelings towards the school. I know it's government/ LA policies, but the school is the agency that we have the direct relationship with. It particularly rankles following on from losing 6 months of education in 2 school years and DS being denied an accessible education when he could not cope with home learning and school did not engage at the point that I had a depressed child sobbing on my lap during daily and ignored my pleas to let him into school for his wellbeing. He took a couple of years to catch up socially and academically.

There is so much toxic culture from government trickling down through LAs/ MATs down through schools affecting the children and their families, and it makes general life that extra layer of stressful.

4 nights mid week term time at a haven park is £69 for up to 6 people...it's like £600 in the holidays for the same thing

See, this is where I struggle with how completely some people have been taken in by the travel industry lies.

You say prices are 'discounted' outside term time, and the 'actual' prices are those advertised during term time.

Think about it...there are 39 weeks of 'term time' and only 13 weeks 'holidays'.

So we are 'led to believe' that companies offer massive discounts for 39 weeks of the year! How would this even be a thing?? They'd be broke! It's ridiculous 🤷‍♀️

Of COURSE the prices are hiked during the holidays! Be critical in your thinking and stop believing what is honestly a huge con from the travel industry.

I don't disagree with you about needing a sensible balance but what's the difference between 4 days and 5 days?

2 four-day blocks out of school is surely more impactful than 1 five-day block?

I do think the DBS thing is unfair as most people don't need them and it could have a huge impact on others where it means nothing to a large number of people.

Children can change schools if current one isn't working for them (like chaging jobs), can be home schooled (wfh), flexible schooled (part time), state schooled, private schooled. So there are choices, but not attending isn't one of them, just like not attending work isn't a choice for most adults.
And many lower paid adults don't have option to wfh, that is a choice more linked to professional roles. Carers, cleaners, porters, health care assistants, teaching assistants none of these can work from home.
But getting a good education now means children are more likely to have greater choices when they are an adult. I am in a high demand professional role, I can dictate my hours, my working pattern (home vs office). My friends who are in low paid roles have no flexibility, miss their child's schools events, can't go part time as if they do they don't earn enough to cover their bills.

Yes, I agree schools need to support children more, but they can only provide this additional support (counselling, booster sessions for those who are struggling etc) if the children are actually in school. My daughters school has a wide range of supportive options such as free breakfast clubs, 1 to 1 pastoral support, subject booster sessions, homework clubs, an ARP for those who cannot cope in their classroom, home tutoring. But the headteacher says, those who would benefit most are those who are often absent. Those who are absent due to anxiety, she has offered for a specialist teaching assistant to visit at home daily for a period of time if child feels unable to attend. And when the TA gets there, the child isn't even home, and the next day they aren't home, and the next, and the parent doesn't pick up their phone, so she has no choice but to report to social services as a missing child. This all takes up valuable resources. She knows they are probably on holiday, but has to follow procedures. This all costs money which could be better used elsewhere.

I think we need some parity. If parents are going to be fined for not bringing their children to school in term time then Local Authorities should be fined for every day they fail to provide education. Many children with SEN are out of school for years waiting for a setting to take them.

It’s totally ridiculous. They are going after an easy target rather than dealing with the problems in schools and reasons behind persistent absence.

The problem is we expect that schools to work with parents and agree to absence for a funeral or wedding or special occasion or trip of a lifetime but there’s loads of stories where this hasn’t happened and the family have been fined. Now there’s a risk of a criminal record too.

They have decided to target people who have the odd family holiday (our council fines after 2 days) rather than dealing with the root causes of persistent absence and trying to improve schools for everyone.

Its also quite hypocritical as in my area alone there’s lots of kids with additional needs who have been denied a school place and are therefore not receiving an education because of the council who spend crazy amounts of money on solicitors to fight parents of kids with SEN and deny them the help they need.

In the last week of the summer term, I had a huge battle with my Y10 son to attend as he said it was a waste of time. They had a full day sports day, a full day "challenge" day, a careers fayre day and the final day they all walked to church, walked back and had lunch then school closed. He had a point.

You really should encourage your son to see the value in those things. The fact that you think he had a point shows where his poor and immature attitude comes from.

Also, if schools didn't do things like sports days and career days, parents would also whinge.

Schools don't always get it right, but it amazes me that when they are trying to make kids more well rounded and offer opportunities, that parents moan about it and say it's a waste of time.

By definition, debate requires you to explain and defend your position. There would be no need for comments otherwise, just a simple vote button. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, nor do I expect there to be any ‘conclusion’ to a MN thread, but I am happy to vigorously defend my perspective and challenge others as part of the debate/ discussion. If you find that you cannot sustain the debate, feel free to sign off.

Round of applause for this post 👏🏻

Children can change schools if current one isn't working for them (like chaging jobs), can be home schooled (wfh), flexible schooled (part time), state schooled, private schooled. So there are choices

Where does one find all this wonderful, flexible education provision at the drop of a hat? My SEN daughter missed out for years and only got proper provision after a long battle and a making a lot of noise.

Most schools are not like your DDs, with banks of specialist TAs trooping out to visit struggling children in their homes, 1to1 support etc.

Hence my opinion that for persistent offenders you simply withdraw the adult's passport for a few years. Then if they do this still but for uk holidays, a driving ban.

I agree that it does not make you unsafe to be around children.

😂😂
This is a chat forum, not a parliamentary debate.
No one is ‘required’ to defend or explain their position, and many posters won’t have time to hang about on MN vigorously defending their perspective because they have a life.

No one needs to sign off just because you deem their debating skills to be under par. Jeez.

There is no way I would share lesson plans with parents. That's just another stick to beat you with.

Yes, I planned my lessons, and had my shorthand in my planner.

I doubt kids are taking their textbooks and exercise books to Angela Rayner land. Not even exam students do this on the April ski-ing holidays.

Is it a poor and immature attitude to not want to attend a series of events? Some parents values walking to church and lunch, a career fayre for those not expected to look for work for many years, or competitive sports, just as some children do, others will think it’s an exhausting waste of time. Why does it amaze you that parents don’t base their opinions on how hard schools try? It’s how valuable the experience is to their child they rate, as they should.

As well as being electoral suicide, this would achieve nothing other than raising prices in the UK and probably Ireland too. Like millions of other people I'm a dual citizen, so it's moot to me, but that's another reason pissing about with passports is a silly idea.

Strange. I could sworn I was in classes teaching them to use Garageband and then Logic in 2011. Did feel like I was teaching IT more than music sometimes and there were too many attempts at plagiarism/cheating where they'd get a mate to do something or download from the Internet, but apart from it being a solo academic task rather than a social and physical one, I can see why it would appeal to schools that don't want to spend money on giving kids access to instruments beyond a keyboard attached to a computer.

DP still hates programming drums, so books a drummer when he's recording - guess that'll be the preserve of the privately educated/tutored in the future.

It's like anything which is free, people feel more able to abuse it, it's like the nhs.

I would suggest it’s more that when an organisation (NHS, school, CAMHS etc) systematically fails the people they are serving those people lose trust.

When we’ve had a good couple of decades where lots of people are increasingly treated like idiots who can’t possibly know what’s best for their child (whilst said org is ignoring the child’s needs) they can expect a backlash and for people to lose respect for that org and stop seeing it as the be all and end all.

Yes education is a right and a privilege, but when education is damaging vulnerable children and encroaching on parental choices they are going to lose the respect and trust of those they are supposedly there for.

I was at school in the 80s and 90s. There was very little pressure, next to no follow up for absenteeism (they did require an appointment slip to have time out for a dr appointment, but time off was never denied). Perhaps a less pressured and authoritarian approach would work better, rather than beating the people who already feel beaten down by a system that’s no longer fit for purpose.

Less stick and more carrot would make education far more valued.

Angela Rayner land? Care to explain that one?

No one is required to participate at all, but if you find yourself routinely offended by someone challenging your perspective then you might want to spend your time elsewhere.

No I agree, many schools aren't like my daughters. But if people don't take up the support when offered, it becomes harder and harder to get that support funded in the first place. However nearly every primary in our area does have an ARP for various different needs - hearing impairment, SEMH, physical disabilities, social comms assessment, visual impairment, ASD, so her school definitely isn't on it own in providing great supportive options. And all of these schools have spaces, and children do sometimes move between them until they find the best fit for their needs. The schools commission professional counselling, their own OT's and speech therapists, lots of opportunities for emotional support through art therapists, equine therapy, therapy dogs, residential trips to build confidence. But whats the point in all this being in school if the child is on holiday?

Yes I agree SEN provision needs to become more equitable across the country - families I speak to move into our area due to the high quality and choice of provision. But even in our well resourced area, many families still take term time holidays, so this cannot always be blamed on the schools failing to support children.

Sorry I haven’t read the whole thread.

what about those children who are asd/adhd/anxiety etc who cannot stay in a school setting. Forcing them into a school setting (where the school has no sen provision available), kids on waitlist for camhs, every day parents struggling to get them into school. Parents having to get other children to school/themselves to work etc.

Ive just been through this. Luckily theyve left secondary education now. Still no appt with camhs, were on their waiting list.

The whole system is broken. Its all good if you have a “normal, compliant child” but anyone with any issues, disability gets fined and it potentially put on their dbs?!? This is madness. All so schools can tick a box. Wheres the empathy for the student? The support? Oh there is none due to funding so we will just pop them in detention and eventually exclude them so we can pass them onto be someone else’s problem. That is not good enough imo but no one seems to see past the fining stage!