To tell friend that I won’t do this and why?

[Itllfalloff]

Good friend, we meet through our kids in primary school but year 4 she moved hers to a private school in the next town over. We still see them lots.

Our local excellent 6th form is state and as its over subscribed has decided to move to only accepting children who have been state educated from Year 1. It’s already none selective - as in, you just need to be good at the subjects you want to study not have amazing GCSEs across the board. It has outstanding results and lots kids end up in Oxbridge and other great universities.

I fully support this. Friend obvs does not and wants to start a local campaign against this - with my help as I’m in marketing/branding/PR type role, am tech savvy and have run community campaigns.

So my choices are - lie and say I’m too busy to get involved, but she might out me under pressure still.

Tell the truth - I think it’s great because more children in the postcode areas which include our cities largest council estate and areas of deprivation will have a chance to go to this excellent school. And perhaps have life changing opportunities because of this.
I am morally opposed to private schools, but we have never discussed this. Her kids her choice, my kids my choice. I sort have let them assume we can’t afford private schooling, which isn’t true.

YANBU - tell her the truth. You support this move and think it’s for the greater good.

YABU - lie, fudge it.

I would be upfront, you sound like you are full of useful information for this kind of campaign and if you are vague about reasons for not being fully involved she'll be popping around to 'pick your brains' just wanting some quick advice, or can you just put me in touch with this contact. You'll be forever pushing back.

I'd probably make an excuse and take the cowards way out!! 🍮

Karma for putting her kids in private school. Just smile and say nothing opinionated.

Definitely be upfront with her or she’ll just keep asking if you’ve got 5 minutes to give her a hand with something.

Yes, I agree with this tbh.

Absolutely fine to restrict it by postcode but to intentionally and specifically exclude private school pupils feels grossly unfair.

Not all children at private schools come from wealthy parents. There are plenty of kids who only get into private school because their parents seriously scrape by, maybe because their kids can't cope in state school with larger classes.

Maybe the family was well-off but aren't any more. Maybe another child in the family has just started secondary school and the fees are now out of reach.

And how about kids who were in private schools because of bursaries/scholarships - are they going to make exceptions for them?

Unless they do a financial assessment, they have no idea whether a family can continue to afford to send children to private 6th form, or whether the private education is causing financial hardship.

It's be like saying to someone who has BUPA healthcare that they're not allowed to use the NHS any more.

Just for reference, I couldn't afford private school for my DC no matter how much I scrimped and saved. And bless their hearts, they'd never get a scholarship. So I'm not defending my own choices here. I just find the nasty attitudes towards families who privately educate pretty appalling - they're not all champagne-quaffing wealthy snobs who deserve all the ills in the world, as seems to be constantly implied.

As for whether to own up, just come clean. If she gets involved in the campaign then she might ask again for help, or the subject may come up repeatedly. It could be awkward to have to come clean later - just say from the start that you're OK with their decision and leave it at that. No need to get into the details of why, just move the subject swiftly on.

@tulippa I absolutely think that any talented and able child should be admitted on merit and that children from disadvantaged backgrounds should have as many opportunities as possible.

If a child meets the academic criteria for admission, then those who meet the distance criteria should have priority. Everyone wants to give their child the best chance of success, but I don’t think it’s reasonable of the friend to pick the parts she wants, after rejecting them for years.

Personally I think the decision is very unfair. Just because a parent can afford some
private education doesn’t mean their child should have to have private schooling all the way through.

But clearly you are not the right person to help . I would tell her your view so she doesn’t ask again or bore you with this issue but be prepared to lose her as a friend as you have such different takes on education.

she thinks that using a state 6th form looks better on an UCAS form given the move to be more diverse in unis when it comes to kids backgrounds.

@Itllfalloff Universities have grown wise to this and also check to see where the student has sat GCSEs. They know that a lot of parents try to game the system, so she is deluded to think she can get away with it.

There are an awful lot of currently privately educated children who will be moving to state schools once VAT kicks in. You can’t force parents who can’t afford the VAT to keep their kids in private for 6th form. If they can’t/won’t pay any longer, they will need - and are completely entitled to, a state school place.

I agree that private school parents shouldn't be able to 'game the system' but what about those who are having to be pulled out of private schools because of the rise in VAT or those whose private schools may have to close down? I'm not saying they should necessarily get into this particularly prestigious 6th form but should previously privately educated children be blocked from attending any state 6th forms when that may be their only option to continue their education? Also I thought that it was now law that all children have to continue some form of education or training until the age of 18. If their parents can no longer afford private then how can they be legally excluded? I realise that the OP's friend does not fit into this scenario but there will be others who do. I have no skin in this game by the way, mine were state all the way a very long time ago.

Plus she thinks that using a state 6th form looks better on an UCAS form given the move to be more diverse in unis when it comes to kids backgrounds.

She sounds awful.

This is a standard ploy now, so many private school parents talk about this - I don’t believe it works anymore h less a uni is just paying lipservice to being more diverse and happy to accept this.
I have seen many schemes now that require several criteria including wholly state educated as well as geo areas, household income, and other considerations…

There are better off families using state schools obvs, but with the average cost of private schooling day school now being more than half of the average U.K. salary there are few WC kids in private…

And they’ll get their places but they aren’t going to march into oversubscribed schools.
There are several other 6th forms in the city that aren’t as well regarded but also have plenty of room…

Say you have a big project on at work and don't have capacity.

Good on them- the school.

For those saying it "unfair" surely that applies to the whole private school system?

Yeah karma for wanting to do the best for her kids.

What a fucking bitch eh!? No way should her kids who didn't even choose their own school have access to a good sixth form.

What a nasty mean spirited comment about these children's future.

Many people scrimp to send their kids to private school.

You'd think all private school kids go on to wealth and guaranteed the best job according to Mumsnet. Its such horseshit. Private schools aren't all like Eton. Most aren't.

My school was private, no my parents weren't wealthy. I was the poor scholarship girl. Kids went on to become chefs, supermarket checkout works, dental hygienists, nurses. And yes some went to Oxford and worked in the city. Some became solicitors and accountants. There's a wide range of outcomes. Just like state school. Surprise. Surprise.

We should all have exactly the same as everyone else. No one should be able to save up and have a bottle of champagne, a nice steak, a nice car, an upgraded flight, a house with a garden. Definitely should not be able to send your kids to a good school that you trust to give them a strong, safe start.

Honestly the moralising the goes on over private schooling is as just ridiculous as the moralising that goes on over pain relief during childbirth.

More politics of envy on Mumsnet.

this - and if your friend is going to run a campaign, she will need to get used to people disagreeing with her.

I’m not particularly envious of those who send their kids to private school, but I do believe that comments about people who scrimp or end up in financial difficulty to send their kids to them are hugely misguided.

There is some real poverty in this country, families are truly on the breadline. If someone’s idea of scraping by is providing their kids with hundreds of thousands pounds worth of education - they’re not scraping by. Not in the context of what real scraping by is in this country. People who are scraping by can hardly afford bread, nevermind a private school.

I don’t know how scholarship kids would be accounted for this case. But I do think private fee paying parents who hope for sympathy are hugely wide of the mark.

I would go for a compromise and say it would put you in an awkward position to campaign against the interests of other friends and neighbours.

Just tell your friend you don't want to do it or don't have time.

However, I am shocked a state school can reject a pupil because they were previously at a private school. This seems unfair as education up to 18 should be free to all. Situations can change like parents lose their jobs or child is bullied at private school. I get prioritising disadvantaged backgrounds but not completely rejecting students from private schools.

I would be honest. My husband is also morally opposed to private schools, but wouldn't/doesn't judge friends who might put there kids into one. Why not be honest and say you think it's great for the local kids?

The ‘politics of envy’ posters don’t seem to realise that many many people don’t consider using elitist private education is actually a good thing.
Plenty of families could afford but don’t use private schools.
and I agree with the posters who says that anyone paying schools fees is not ‘scraping by’ … scraping by is just being able to feed your kids, and pay your bills not opting out of state education in favour of paying, on average £17k a year for day fees.

I don't buy the "politics of envy" idea either.

I have no skin in the game, and am fortunate to live in an area that had good state schools. DD is now embarking on post graduate education after achieving excellent GCSEs, A levels and a first class STEM degree after having been to the state comprehensive school in the nearest town.

I would just be semi-honest and say:

Legally, what they're doing is 100% above board, so there's no possible challenge there.

Locally, it's likely to be a well-received policy so there won't be any public backing.

You can't plough your time and reputation into a campaign that's doomed to failure as it may be professionally damaging to your career!

I think even state 6th form can be picky it’s not like school to 16 where they are obliged to accept everyone.

Round here you have to get a certain standard of gcse to get in to one states though know our school will really try to accommodate pupils from their schools they know tried hard but didn’t quite get the grades.