Refugees "visiting home"

[Notanotherkendoll]

I'm not sure how I feel after this conversation with a friend so would like to hear other opinions.
My friend took in a Ukrainian refugee back in 2022, she was a 18/19 year old teenager. She didn't stay for long before getting employment/started studying and was able to move out but they have remained in touch and my friend sort of views herself as the girls "uk mum".
Anyway friend is once again beside herself as she has gone back to Kyiv for a few days. This isn't the city she is from but sadly the city she was from was under siege for sometime and is now mostly destroyed. She is going to visit her family who all moved to Kyiv, as the only girl her family pushed her to flee when the war started but her mum stayed put.

This has me thinking, surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back? I thought the whole point of being a refugee was that your own country wasn't safe, if you are going back to visit how can that be the case?

AIBU to think it's incompatible with the very nature of being a refugee to be able to visit home?

It isn't safe for her to return home to Ukraine as there is a war on.

She's obviously chosen to do so because she misses her family. Give her a break for goodness sake.

We are in the same situation. We have a "refugee" living with us for the last 3 years as a private lodger. He goes home twice a year for extended periods of time, his adult child comes to visit occasionally. I don't get it either but here we are.

I agree with @Howdull . So many families have been torn apart. Think how desperate someone has to be to flee their home in the first place, and how desolate and desperate they must feel to take the risk of returning there in order to see their loved ones.

there is so much more happening in the world. This is what you choose to get annoyed about.

This.

"surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back?"

How heartless can you be?

There is a difference between being safe enough for a visit and safe enough to live in permanently.

What does your lodger say about their experiences of returning home to visit?

So the town where she lives has been completely destroyed.

Her whole family (including her) are therefore refugees as they are fleeing war and their home is literally destroyed.

Her family are internal refugees in the country she lives in.

They almost certainly sent her out of the country as they were worried about her being raped/sexually assaulted by Russian troops in the event of their town being destroyed.

Russian troops have a reputation for torture and sexual assault and rape of Ukrainians.

She has now returned for a brief visit to Kyiv which is regularly under attack by Russian missiles.

Of course her country isn't safe. The fact that she misses her family so much that she chooses to go back into danger doesn't change that.

During the blitz when London was being bombed many London families brought back their children who had been evacuated. They would rather die together than live apart.

Some places aren't liveable, but you would risk visiting them to see family who can't come to you. There is a child in my son's class who came from Afghanistan with his mother as refugees - they fly back to visit, but it doesn't mean Afghanistan is an okay place to live.

I guess she is willing to risk her safety to see her family, most people would. What's the alternative, never see them again (as many people in other countries have to do)

He says it's wonderful and he has a great time camping with his mates. He is planning to buy a car for 5k in the UK and sell it for 25k at home.
Unless you are on the front line, life goes on as normal. That's what I gather.

I have an acquaintance who works in a hostel/ centre for refugees. He tells me that it is quite usual for people who are claiming asylum from war or persecution to return to their countries of origin for a ‘holiday’. (His clients are mainly for Africa or the Middle East).

He thinks it’s ‘lovely’ . Apparently the danger must stop for a couple of weeks, perhaps they have a holiday amnesty ? 🤷🏻‍♀️

This attitude of distrust and total scepticism towards people fleeing conflict and desperate situations is so, so tiring and draining. As if people are uprooting their entire lives and making arduous journeys to the UK just to profit from the wonderful, glorious (and not at all dehumanising!!) asylum or benefits systems here. 🙄Change the record already.

@Notanotherkendoll

I get your logic, I also understand other posters comments about her missing her family.

Perhaps it would have been more understandable if she had met (if possible) with relatives in say Poland or Hungary or even in the relatively safer western Ukraine.

Either way you will get flamed and labelled as a far right anti immigration fascist on MN for even raising the question on whether the migrants are genuine refugees.

I'm surprised he hasn't been mobilised. I thought men under 60 had to stay in Ukraine??

I agree that it is odd to return to the country you've fled from, for whatever reason. It's either safe enough to go to or it isn't. For some, it's govt-approved relocation.

My neighbour is a refugee from Ukraine, along with a very young daughter & teenage son.

She regularly goes “home” for holidays and takes the young daughter with her. Maybe four or five times a year. Never expresses any concerns for their safety. I think she leaves the son here so he won’t be drafted.

This is really simple. Some places are not safe for refugees to live in. They might or might not be safe to visit. It has literally no bearing on the legitimacy of their refugee status. It’s just nasty refugee bashing.

See it isn't this. She isn't claiming benefits, she works and is studying. My friend claims she never did claim benefits and prior to being able to get employment she lived off of cash savings she'd brought with.

It's more just confusion about what qualifies as a refugee. I don't think she's using the benefits system more that the refugee system is being misused for people who just want to move to the Uk and could do via other routes such as getting a work visa etc.

Tell you what OP, why don’t you move to a country actively at war since you’ve decided it must be safe? Or alternatively ask yourself why you begrudge this woman having asylum in the UK.

Firstly, Ukrainians are not technically refugees, they’re here under ‘humanitarian protection’. During WW2, some people left London or sent their children to a place of safety. Others stayed and got on with ‘life as normal’. They went to work, they went out dancing and met their friends. Maybe that was their way of coping, or perhaps they had no other options. 43,000 civilians died in the London Blitz. It wasn’t safe, despite people ‘living as normal’.

Would I want to live in a war torn country? Absolutely not. Would I return to a war torn country to visit my husband, sons, brothers, mother, etc. Absolutely, I’d crawl over broken glass to see them. Does that make it a “safe place”? Of course it bloody doesn’t.

Ukraine still may still be completely taken over by Russia in the long term, especially if Trump gets voted in and pulls back US support. It’s not exactly safe now and is still being bombed in parts , Isn’t it?

It doesn’t surprise me if people go home in periods of relative calm to see family members left behind, especially if the particular city hasn’t been bombed. I would do the same, especially if they were elderly relatives.

Ukrainians here are not strictly "refugees". People here on actual asylum grounds are very rarely able to travel home - it would usually result in their applications being denied. I do find the double standards a little galling, but the reasons are political rather than personal.
But simply, sometimes it can be safe to visit, but not to live.

It’s not an all inclusive to the Maldives, it’s a budget flight to Poland and a bus. You can get a return flight from Manchester to Przemysl for £32.