Refugees "visiting home"

[Notanotherkendoll]

I'm not sure how I feel after this conversation with a friend so would like to hear other opinions.
My friend took in a Ukrainian refugee back in 2022, she was a 18/19 year old teenager. She didn't stay for long before getting employment/started studying and was able to move out but they have remained in touch and my friend sort of views herself as the girls "uk mum".
Anyway friend is once again beside herself as she has gone back to Kyiv for a few days. This isn't the city she is from but sadly the city she was from was under siege for sometime and is now mostly destroyed. She is going to visit her family who all moved to Kyiv, as the only girl her family pushed her to flee when the war started but her mum stayed put.

This has me thinking, surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back? I thought the whole point of being a refugee was that your own country wasn't safe, if you are going back to visit how can that be the case?

AIBU to think it's incompatible with the very nature of being a refugee to be able to visit home?

Ukrainians were offered an Ukraine visa Scheme. This person decided to use the route created by the UK government. Same as people applying for work visa or student visa or family visa do depending on their situation. Everyone picks the one that works the best for them. If I was given a choice to apply for a visa through a scheme that was free and included benefits and right to work and study, hell yeah I'd take advantage of that. In comparison coming through skilled work visa is impossible and expensive.

I can kinda understand what you're trying to say and there are individual cases that i know and would agree with you. But I don't think in this case it is odd at all.

I agree with you OP. Also if my country was at war and Ukraine was at peace, if I wanted to go there as a refugee I wouldn’t be even let past the border let alone be given a penny social welfare.

Maybe you should watch the news today op and hear about the most recent awful attack on Ukraine. Then see how you feel about it!

Your friend sounds lovely. Well done to her for helping this young woman.

I don't think comments like this are helpful. We should be able to discuss these issues and those who have concerns about it should be able to air those views respectfully without being told to get a life or called names by other people on here.

I personally don't have an opinion on the issue. I don't know all the facts and background to someone's situation and it's not my place to sit here and judge. If they are here legally, that's the main thing.

However, like I said, I do think people should be able to talk about these things if they choose to.

The people who flee war, famine, persecution are often the wealthiest as they have the resources, confidence and brain power to get out.

If Britain was bombed, who do you think would be able to get out first? And who do you think wouldn't?
Take your time, think about it.

Oh of course it would be the people with money. I just don't see why it's not safe to live there yet their whole family still does and it's apparently fine for holiday visits? If they were ok money wise then why hasn't the rest of the family fleed?

Exactly.

Someone I know slightly came here as an asylum seeker because it wasn't safe for him to live as a gay man in his home country. He still goes home biannually, otherwise he would never see his elderly mother. That doesn't mean it would be a safe place for him to live. Even his mum has stopped begging him to come home.

Two friends took in Ukrainian refugees. One, a younger woman, goes back every 2 months to have her hair done, the second goes back for dental care. I can understand that they want to go back to see their loved ones, but I can’t understand how flights can continue into a war torn country.

There are no flights. Are you kidding?
it is a flight to Poland and bus/train across the border

This. Unbelievable thread.

Lots of Ukrainians weren't allowed to. Military aged men and women in particular roles were restricted, regardless of whether they were safe or not.

The only person ‘confused’ seems to be you. Confused about the actual details of the special Ukrainian scheme offered to Ukrainians by the UK government. Fancy, someone moaning about immigrants not being in full possession of actual facts.
Shocked, shocked I tell ye.

This woman is not a refugee, by the way. She has no right to remain here. Review in about 18 months.

So she can't look forward and build a life here either. Maybe, but who can plan a future on maybe. Her only permanent right to settle is still in Ukraine.

You are not allowed to work when you are claiming asylum, and you receive a pittance on which to survive. If you are granted asylum, you can get a job and afford holidays.

Jesus

@Devilsmommy
I do actually know the answer to this for this girl, she is one of 4, 3 brothers. 2 have already been called up to the front line leaving wasn't an option for them. Her father is a doctor and believe restricted on leaving.
Her mother doesn't speak any English and decided that she was too old to start again and would rather stay with her husband and be there for her sons but wanted her daughter who could speak English and who would be at particular risk of rape etc. to get out.

I'm not doubting that it wasn't safe for her, I guess it was more confusion on why she would go back if it was so unsafe.

I went on holiday to India a few years ago. There's no way I'd want to live there. People travel to places for many reasons (adventure travel, work, family visits etc) but it doesn't mean they would want to stay longer.

The Ukranian family near us go back a couple of times a year because they have male relatives that aren't allowed to leave. One time a building near them got destroyed. It is a horrendous decision to make - never see your loved ones again or be at risk. Be grateful you don't have to make that choice.

The right wing press have done a thorough job at villainising refugees and immigrants.

There are no commercial flights to Ukraine. It's admirable that your primary concern is airline safety, and not people going back home for whatever reason they want, those it's a weird way of saying that.

Every day spent in a war zone is a roll of the dice. You are more likely to be ok for a week then living there permanently.

We had a Ukrainian mum and daughter stay with us for nine months. They have now moved into a rented cottage and work hard to pay the bills. They have never claimed a penny in benefits - they are proud, hard working people. They would move back in a shot if it was safe, but their home city is Kharkiv, which if you’ve seen the news, you’ll know is on the front line.

After two years here (during which time her father died and she missed his funeral, and her granny ended up in Russian territory after a Russian land grab and was out of contact for weeks before being rescued by some very brave civilians) the mum went back to visit her family during a relatively quiet spell. When she got back here afterwards, she told me it was a terrifying experience, and she did not sleep for the week she was there. But she was desperate to see her family, so it was worth the roll of the dice. She did not let her daughter go.

Calling such a visit a holiday is brutal.

If her brothers have been called up she is probably afraid they'll be killed and she'll never see them again if she doesn't take the risk?

I think that would do it for most people

This post highlights that it's not as black and white as many people think. It's a valid question OP; not easy to find an answer.

In this instance she'll have a different immigration status not asylum, but otherwise absolutely. This is a person with a job and no dependents who'll have access to any number of budget airline destinations in the border countries. It's hardly implausible for a person in that position to be able to afford the odd Ryanair or Easyjet offering.

If this girl is working, studying, supporting herself, contributing to our country via taxation and learning, why do you have such a problem with her being here?

Even if the war in Ukraine finished tomorrow and it was somehow safe for her to return home, why should she? She’s building a life for herself which as a lone female in a strange country is not an easy thing to do.