Refugees "visiting home"

[Notanotherkendoll]

I'm not sure how I feel after this conversation with a friend so would like to hear other opinions.
My friend took in a Ukrainian refugee back in 2022, she was a 18/19 year old teenager. She didn't stay for long before getting employment/started studying and was able to move out but they have remained in touch and my friend sort of views herself as the girls "uk mum".
Anyway friend is once again beside herself as she has gone back to Kyiv for a few days. This isn't the city she is from but sadly the city she was from was under siege for sometime and is now mostly destroyed. She is going to visit her family who all moved to Kyiv, as the only girl her family pushed her to flee when the war started but her mum stayed put.

This has me thinking, surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back? I thought the whole point of being a refugee was that your own country wasn't safe, if you are going back to visit how can that be the case?

AIBU to think it's incompatible with the very nature of being a refugee to be able to visit home?

Well seeing as I saw something on the news yesterday about a 14yo girl sat on a park bench in Ukraine who was decapitated in front of her mother by some sort of Russian mortar attack I’d say it’s not the safest place to live.

I think the misunderstanding stems from the law. Ukrainians who arrived in the UK after the Russian invasion don’t have to pass the refugee test in the Refugee Convention.

One of the limbs of this test is that the state cannot protect the person from harm. It’s off the top of my head so please someone more knowledgeable correct me if I’m wrong.

Ukrainians granted temporary leave had to prove they were in Ukraine when the invasion happened. So, while we might commonly refer to them as refugees, they did not have to pass the refugee test in the refugee convention. Meaning they aren’t doing anything legally contradictory by visiting Ukraine, even though it might seem contradictory on a different level.

Ukraine is a huge country and the Western part is not affected by war as much. From what I’ve heard from people who know the situation on the ground, it’s safe(r) to be there.

Because they won't necessarily be granted refugee status, they are willing to stay in their home country despite the danger. It's a hard and expensive trip, so sometimes refugees will send someone ahead in the hope of family reunion.

What do you think the reason is?

I do have access to YouTube obviously but I don't watch the news and I haven't got the time to sit there reading up about it. I've got a very active toddler to look after and a health condition that doesn't leave me loads of spare time to research war torn countries. Always nice to passive aggressively be called thick though

Compared to the zone of complete destruction in their home city, Kyiv is safer. It just is under attack with air raid sirens on about twice a day on average. On a good days no casualties, just injured people from debris after air defence took the rackets down.
Lately, Russian started to target water dam above the city. Breaking that would kill thousands in Kyiv only.

Is it an ok place for living? Not really. Is it so bad she should never see her relatives again? Not really.

Ukraine forbid men to leave, so the family focused their money on getting the only daughter away, while her mum decided to stay with her sons. Is it that weird?

Exactly this.

They tried to change the story when it came to Ukrainian refugees, because in their mind they were the "right" kind (white people), and they deserved to be let in. But the disgusting attitudes prevail

We hosted a Ukrainian family.

One day we were told that the mum was going back to Ukraine to sort out some business. Left the kids and another adult here. At the time I panicked as what would happen to the kids left here…

It ended up that they had applied for work visas for the U.K. years before the war which were rejected.

It really changed my view on a lot of things. I used to be quite left wing but not so much now… they exploit every loophole and have zero shame in doing so.

For a start the ones on this thread are renting room not dealing with the cost of a whole house. Also flights home is not the same as your understanding of tge process of a holiday

Really? Have you seen what’s happened in West Ukraine overnight?
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-latest-putin-war-live-updates-skynews-blog-12541713

There's a really informative and long running thread which will give anyone who's interested more of an insight into the situation in Ukraine here:
Ukraine Invasion: Part 51 | Mumsnet

Yet you have time to spout nonsense here.

No wonder you're so ignorant if you get your 'facts' from YouTube. Christ.

Try reading about what's happening on a daily basis in Ukraine and then taking your horrendous judgment elsewhere. This was from July. Does this look like a safe haven to you? https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/13/kyiv-deadly-russian-attack-hospital-ukraine

I don’t have a firm opinion. I certainly would not return to a war zone I had fled for my life.

There is a discussion to be had but not on this forum.

I notice that disagreement with the OP is quite insulting towards her and others with words like ‘absolute halfwit’ being bandied around.

It also interests me how it is allowable to stereotype men from one region as rapists when if they lived here as immigrants stereotyping them would be not allowed at all.

That last part made me cry.

“They would rather die together than live apart”

A colleague’s mum came here from the Ukraine for safety. She receives her pension from the Ukraine government and returns for dental and health treatment as she says it is far superior than here. so life, of some sort does continue. However, her son, can’t leave and is waiting to be called up, her village is at risk and she is currently staying with a friend out in the countryside there. I’m not sure if and when she will return to the U.K. as ultimately her life was there. Very sad.

It involves some unsavory border crossing practices which is between him and Ukrainian border control. I hear they are tightening it at the moment so who knows how long he will be able to do it for.

Some of the posts on this thread disgust me.

Last couple of days; this morning - Lviv, 7 killed, including a baby. A BABY!

Poltova, yesterday, death toll has risen to 53 and the rescue efforts are ongoing.

24 hours in Ukraine.

Put yourself in the place of someone who has left family behind. Go on. Use your imagination. These photos are from this last 24 hours.

Agree re your comment about stereotyping.

Do you understand the difference between stereotyping all Russian men as rapists, and accurately reporting that the Russian army has a history of using rape as a weapon of war - as is well documented, and as many other armies all over the world have done?

My Iranian neighbours can't go back to their country because its too dangerous for them so they need to meet up with family in Germany. That's what I call being in real danger.

Exactly, too many people wanting to be 'open-minded' swing the other way. Accepting anything refugees do without question.
Coming from a developing country personally, many people want to move for a better life, it's not inconceivable to use whatever route available. Not everyone is 'forced to flee on pain of death'.

Seemingly not. I mean, what the actual fuck?

As I pointed out I don't get my facts from YouTube. So asking a genuine question is ignorance then? Funnily enough I thought asking questions and getting answers was the way to learn about any given thing. Suppose I shouldn't have expected that on here though🙄

The confusion is yours.

People aren't misusing the refugee system - the vast majority are accepted, even if it takes an appeal. The number of refugees compared with the number of migrants is very small, and yet people (and politicians) confuse them. If they were allowed to work, asylum seekers would do so, pay taxes and not claim the pittance to which they are entitled.

And Iranians often get asylum, whereas Ukrainians don't. The systems are different.