AIBU to think it's time for the NHS to do itself a favour and make WL injections readily available.

[nextdoorconundrum]

I've posted about this before but following the news today from the chief scientific officer for the British Heart Foundation - Professor Brian Williams - that the health benefits of these drugs appears to be beneficial in the reduction of heart disease, high bp, stroke , arthritis and even Alzheimer's.. (interviews on R4 today programme and channel 4 news just now for anyone wanting to hear all he had to say ) .: Is it not time now for the NHS to actually save itself the fortune it spends in treating obesity related diseases - rather than obesity itself.

There is also something highly questionable about a drug that is readily available to people who can afford it - but is mostly not available to those who most need it . With extremely narrow parameters and some ridiculous hoops to jump through before being 'allowed it on the NHS.(Obesity affects 39% of women in the most deprived areas as opposed to 22% in the least )

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg189/documents/health-inequalities-briefing-2#:~:text=The%20greatest%20rates%20of%20adult,in%20the%20least%20deprived%20areas.

I say this as a financially comfortable mc woman who has lost 4 stone on WL injections. I no longer cost the NHS any money in BP drugs, Sleep Apnea machine, Corticosteroids for knees etc - in fact for the first time in 26 years I only take thyroxine which is not something that can be reversed. The only reason I have managed this is because I could afford to buy it. Surely this is not only wrong but immoral in a national health system ?

The argument of 'is it safe ?' doesn't hold water . It has been approved through extensive and thorough trials across both the United States and most of Europe. It is no more or less safe than any new drug.

The argument of 'some people get nausea and vomiting and other side effects ' yes this is true. As do some people on all kinds of drugs . I personally can't tolerate penicillin - doesn't mean it should not have been allowed to save the lives of millions for 70 years. !

Last but not least.. what happens when you get to a healthy weight and stop taking it ? Well I guess it's exactly the same as blood pressure medication. You take it when it creeps up again .. perhaps it just becomes one of those drugs that you take lifelong on and off to maintain good health ..

Far far cheaper than treating all the current diseases associated with obesity and morbid obesity..

YABU - we can't afford it
YANBU - it's a false economy not to make it readily available to people with obesity if they want to try it.

Ultimately good food, active lifestyle and their culture:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nutrition/surprising-factors-behind-japan-s-low-obesity-rates-while-32-americans-struggle/ar-AA1gJmDp

How do the WL injections work for someone who comfort eats?
Many morbidly obese people didn't get to that point by stopping eating when their hunger was satisfied. Many used food as an emotional crutch.
Do WL injections work for emotional eating? And if so, how?

Exactly. The NHS can't afford to pay for these expensive drugs unless it's clear that they are cost effective balanced against obesity related costs. It's by no means clear yet that this is the case.

They make you feel full, so you don't want to eat the same quantities as you feel physically uncomfortable if you eat too much. They also reduce the compulsion/impulse to eat and significantly reduce sugar craving.

The overall diet of the people.

Meanwhile, all the financially comfortable
mc willing to pay for wl drugs are reducing supply and means those with genuine health concerns are faced with hospitalisation and death because they can no longer get the medications which they need.

A close friend is in this situation. She is terrified.

Oh absolutely, I'm sure the balance will shift over time. I just get a bit fed up of these regular threads claiming that the NHS must fund these drugs because 'it stands to reason' they will save the health system money, when actually this is far from given based on current clinical evidence and pricing.

The most I've paid is £149 per month. Lots of competition out there with discount codes.. average £ 120..

Because the food chatter is switched off I don't buy any sundries .. for example.. a latte on my way to work (just take a bottle of water) .. £3.70 a day.. that's £74 a month... would like to say that was my only indulgence but of course it's not.. probably a sandwich and a packet of crisps

.. when now as I know I don't really fancy anything I make my own chicken salad.. that's another £5 a day saved .. so already it's costing me less. Not to mention the massive reduction in normal monthly shop.. (I don't limit DH but he is naturally slim and hasn't put on a pound since I met him) I have always cooked from scratch because I enjoy it and haven't had beige food or UPF in the house for years.. (my issue was portion control due to steroids that made me ravenous) .

Like most people who are or have been morbidly obese - I know what a calorie is. I could probably tell you the calorie content of virtually any food you put in front of me. But the ability to say 'no thanks' to an extra helping when your hunger signal doesn't switch off - is the issue.

I am on Mountjaro btw. Not Ozempiic. This is because when I was doing the research, the outcomes of coronary events were much improved with tirzepatide (the active drug in Mountjaro.) . esc365.escardio.org/ESC-Congress/abstract?text=Semaglutide&docType=All&days&page=1&vue=cards

not to mention the fact that Ozempic was in short supply and needed for diabetics

My MIL is on the injections (pays privately for them) and has lost a good chunk of weight, she looks great but she hasn't changed her actual eating habits, she's just not hungry, once she comes off them I'm almost certain she'll pile it back on. Obviously I hope that doesn't happen, I want her to be well.

I on the other hand am severely overweight. My BMI is in the 50's. I'm doing a calorie controlled diet and exercise. I am starving all the time. I can't turn the noise off that tells me I want to eat. Food is all I can think about some days. It's soul destroying to work so hard, to constantly think and worry about what I'm going to eat, how many calories are in it etc etc and have the number on the scale stay the same. I've been referred for a weight management program but that could take a long time to come through. I cannot afford the injections and I cannot get them on the NHS as currently I don't have any other conditions other than obesity. I think the injections would really help me to kick start the process and allow me to form new habits without the distraction of all that noise in my head. But it isn't to be at the moment and the road ahead looks really, really long.

Doesn't the emerging evidence show that people put back on the weight once they stop taking it ? The NHS would have to evaluate the really long term value of this drug. It's essentially an appetite suppressant from what I understand so it would make sense that people who stop it get their appetite back and over a few years will likely go back to old habits. I've read threads on here of people saying they've stopped taking it and are ravenously hungry and have ended up putting on more weight!

@Cantsleepdontsleep Mounjaro is what most people buy privately, most people are prescribed different medications for diabetes etc Wegovy or Ozempic

So how do they actually work in practice? Do you take them forever? Or just until the weight is lost? What’s the chances of people just getting into a put weight on - medication - lose weight - stop medication - regain weight - medication….. cycle?

I have done what your DH has done several times over which is the problem. I can't see how using a drug to lose weight which you then stop taking can change the cycle

A Quick Look on the 'what I eat in a day on weight loss injections' threads shows that a lot of people on these drugs are not eating healthily. They are eating less and losing weight sure but there is often little fruit and veg. They've learned nothing about sustainable healthy eating. They will probably put weight back on once off the injections.

Yabu op, weight loss injections are a quick fix, not a long term solution

Japan have the Metabo Law

I read about this today, aside from weight loss it sounds like a miracle drug, reducing inflammation which is the root of many illnesses. If this is true it could save the NHS millions.

I couldn't find anything on what happens if you take it and are not overweight? That could limit it's benefits. Or whether it's been found to help inflammatory disease like rheumatoid arthritis?

Liraglutide, the older sibling of semiglutide has been used medically for around 15-20 years. Its well studied and has been used by millions

Yes apparently in Japan workplaces have monthly weighs and list the results for all to see.

Imagine that happening here 😂😂😂😂

@LadyKenya agreed 👍🏼

I was once very overweight and whilst it would have been mortifying, it would have encouraged me to eat less / more healthily. I agree though, it would never wash here.

For me gradual creep into borderline obese since menopause and the weight just not shifting it's Been a miracle drug.

I swim several times a week and am very active. Also I eat ok on the whole. Meno just made the weight stick like glue.

This has meant I can really stick to a good diet of vegetables salads and fruit and protein. I don't
Miss cakes and biscuits so far.

I'm calorie counting again and intend to keep that up once I'm Off the jabs.

Also I agree that paying £175 a month means I'm more likely to make good choices

I'm only a few kgs
From healthy bmi now and feel amazing.

I think it would be better for them to address the reasons why people over eat in the first place, help people with those things and then people can take responsibility. Making people a healthy weight doesn't take away the reasons why they eat too much.

YANBU. MIL is very overweight, always has been for the 20+ years I’ve known her. Her health is failing, she’s had one knee op and needs another, her life is very limited due to poor mobility.

I have no idea why the NHS wouldn’t want to save thousands in future health care costs for her by prescribing a weight loss jab now.

Not an expert, but think its mostly diet - rice, seafood and veg. Saw a really interesting programme about the healthiest places in the world which I'd recommend. Website is https://www.bluezones.com/2020/07/blue-zones-diet-food-secrets-of-the-worlds-longest-lived-people/

I remember a documentary/some studies carried out and a lot of Chinese people couldn't eat too much it made them physically sick and also their fat cells are smaller.