AIBU to think it's time for the NHS to do itself a favour and make WL injections readily available.

[nextdoorconundrum]

I've posted about this before but following the news today from the chief scientific officer for the British Heart Foundation - Professor Brian Williams - that the health benefits of these drugs appears to be beneficial in the reduction of heart disease, high bp, stroke , arthritis and even Alzheimer's.. (interviews on R4 today programme and channel 4 news just now for anyone wanting to hear all he had to say ) .: Is it not time now for the NHS to actually save itself the fortune it spends in treating obesity related diseases - rather than obesity itself.

There is also something highly questionable about a drug that is readily available to people who can afford it - but is mostly not available to those who most need it . With extremely narrow parameters and some ridiculous hoops to jump through before being 'allowed it on the NHS.(Obesity affects 39% of women in the most deprived areas as opposed to 22% in the least )

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg189/documents/health-inequalities-briefing-2#:~:text=The%20greatest%20rates%20of%20adult,in%20the%20least%20deprived%20areas.

I say this as a financially comfortable mc woman who has lost 4 stone on WL injections. I no longer cost the NHS any money in BP drugs, Sleep Apnea machine, Corticosteroids for knees etc - in fact for the first time in 26 years I only take thyroxine which is not something that can be reversed. The only reason I have managed this is because I could afford to buy it. Surely this is not only wrong but immoral in a national health system ?

The argument of 'is it safe ?' doesn't hold water . It has been approved through extensive and thorough trials across both the United States and most of Europe. It is no more or less safe than any new drug.

The argument of 'some people get nausea and vomiting and other side effects ' yes this is true. As do some people on all kinds of drugs . I personally can't tolerate penicillin - doesn't mean it should not have been allowed to save the lives of millions for 70 years. !

Last but not least.. what happens when you get to a healthy weight and stop taking it ? Well I guess it's exactly the same as blood pressure medication. You take it when it creeps up again .. perhaps it just becomes one of those drugs that you take lifelong on and off to maintain good health ..

Far far cheaper than treating all the current diseases associated with obesity and morbid obesity..

YABU - we can't afford it
YANBU - it's a false economy not to make it readily available to people with obesity if they want to try it.

“and just need to eat less and move more ?”

But you do. The vast majority of us eat too much and have sedentary desk jobs. Relying on jabs is a slippery slope I think. Surely the drug will either stop working or you’ll need higher doses? There are different doses now aren’t there.

We’re addicted to fast food, eating out, covering things in cheese, dirty fries, burgers, sausages. I wonder how many people just eat smaller portions of unhealthy food/ replace food addiction with something else.

I suppose it's somewhat like NRT. You would use both to stop the cravings and re-educate your mindset.
Some people will gain weight if they stop taking it and some people smoke again after NRT.
Hopefully though it will give you the impetus to change your habits and behaviours.

I thought about them but have managed to lose nearly 5 stone using the 16:8 diet & having 2 fasting days of 600 calories. I'm losing 2lb a week on average & I was a massive binge eater.

There is a very long list of what the nhs could be funding this is not one of them

Yes, OP I always thought this…however,@QueenOfHiraeth makes a really good point. I’m currently using Invisalign and when I think about giving up or not wearing them, I remind myself how much I forked out for this treatment! Nothing like a few grand to focus the mind!

on the other hand, I’ve been given physio exercises by the NHS which I never remember to do but guaranteed I would remember if I’d paid for it!

Have we really reached the stage of lack of self control and gluttony and a corrupt food system that we have to inject people to keep them slim?

we have no idea of the long term effects of these drugs and also what happens after they stop

meanwhile our health system has collapsed

No the less wealthy can enjoy being a healthy weight. Many, many people who aren’t wealthy successfully lose weight.

So with this extortionate treatment people just carry on eating crap but less of it as indicated below.High cholesterol, cancer risk and heart disease won’t be going anywhere.

You get well woman checks when you get older and I know so many that have had to change habits to keep healthy. My cholesterol levels were getting high so I had to take responsibility and change my eating habits. If I’d been overweight a jab wouldn’t take that away.

This drug will take money from other areas that need it more including areas such as heart disease and cancer that those who eat badly but previously more would still get. The NHS spends a fortune on educating and encouraging healthy eating and that won’t need to reduce.

Just no, it’s a ridiculous idea and areas such as MH need the money far more and would prove to be a better use of it.

Very much doubt it. I've lost 10stone naturally and have been told no skin surgery (despite the loose skin causing some issues). Think I was quoted £8k for private and while I did think about it, I couldn't justify it, plus didn't want to take the 9months off exercise.

As far as the injections go, I'm personally not sure they are as good as idea as some people think. We don't have long term data on side effects, plus this is medication that does save people's lives and is in short supply

How do the injections work?

Could they work for someone with a healthy bmi who wants to be slim with zero effort?

Could they work for kids?

Could they be abused?

It costs less than a fiver to make one pen, so it will eventually be offered on the NHS, but not until Big Pharma has had their cut.

American pharmacies are getting around the costs issue by ordering the raw peptide from China, then adding something like B12 to it so the 'recipe' is different enough from the brand name versions to avoid lawsuits.

There's also an entire online community of home diy-ers who are ordering from the same Chinese suppliers as the pharmacies, having it tested for safety and sharing the results with each other. You can get 6+ months supply for less than £170 if you buy the peptide and make it yourself yourself (don't ask me how, I won't reply).

It will be interesting to see if the explosion in DIY usage undercuts brand names enough to force further price reductions.

Are the health benefits quoted in the OP from losing weight (through any means) or the drug specifically?

Could they work for someone with a healthy bmi who wants to be slim with zero effort?

That's literally why the 5 or 6 people I know taking it use it

I couldn’t agree more.

The drug(s) specifically. And bear in mind there are now multiple variations of the drugs that work on different receptors/levels with several more currently in trials.

From losing weight.

The long term risks are unknown, for people who are actually obese and don't have the means to lose weight naturally then the risk balance is worthwhile. I suspect the NHS doesn't want millions on law suits in decades time when people pancreas' are screwed or their bowels are paralysed though, people can't really sue for health issues as a result of being fat.

If you are eating the same crap but less of it you are still going to have high BP, heart disease, increased cancer risk…. and there will be less money to treat all those things.

It’s a ridiculous idea.

This is incorrect. The benefits are from the actual drug. If you do a google there were a rash of new stories about it this weekend.

None of those say it's from the actual drug. They say it's in people who lost weight using semaglutide.

But if people are still eating crap there will be no health benefits and actually people will have less incentive to eat healthier so could end up eating worse( just less).

Well, at least your last post recognised a supply issue, @nextdoorconundrum. I'm sure it's more exciting to fulminate about NHS gatekeeping and global cartels, but the fact is semaglutides are in global shortage because demand very quickly outstripped capacity to produce. South Park made a great episode about it.

Maybe revisit this topic next year, once all the new labs are up and running?

The benefits are independent of any subsequent weight loss: https://archive.is/MJkie

No. The NHS refused to fund optimal treatment for osteoporosis for me. Six fractures in six years but I am under 65. I had to pay £2,400 for teriparatide in accordance with Nice guidelines.

I didn't have the choice to cut down food to improve a chronic health condition and neither do many others.

“Experts have warned in the past that the drug is not a quick fix or a replacement for eating well and exercising, and should only be offered under medical supervision.“

So where is the money going to come for educating and encouraging that when it’s all been spent on these pens?

Where is the money for heart disease, high BP, cancer…etc that will still be there due to the same crap being eaten but just in smaller quantities?

Why should the nhs fund something that I’ve done to my self through been greedy . I am on Mounjaro and happy to pay for it .

Well, it's not preventable health care though, is it?

It's just putting a plaster over the main problem of why people overeat, don't exercise or know how to cook or anything about food!