AIBU to think it's time for the NHS to do itself a favour and make WL injections readily available.

[nextdoorconundrum]

I've posted about this before but following the news today from the chief scientific officer for the British Heart Foundation - Professor Brian Williams - that the health benefits of these drugs appears to be beneficial in the reduction of heart disease, high bp, stroke , arthritis and even Alzheimer's.. (interviews on R4 today programme and channel 4 news just now for anyone wanting to hear all he had to say ) .: Is it not time now for the NHS to actually save itself the fortune it spends in treating obesity related diseases - rather than obesity itself.

There is also something highly questionable about a drug that is readily available to people who can afford it - but is mostly not available to those who most need it . With extremely narrow parameters and some ridiculous hoops to jump through before being 'allowed it on the NHS.(Obesity affects 39% of women in the most deprived areas as opposed to 22% in the least )

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg189/documents/health-inequalities-briefing-2#:~:text=The%20greatest%20rates%20of%20adult,in%20the%20least%20deprived%20areas.

I say this as a financially comfortable mc woman who has lost 4 stone on WL injections. I no longer cost the NHS any money in BP drugs, Sleep Apnea machine, Corticosteroids for knees etc - in fact for the first time in 26 years I only take thyroxine which is not something that can be reversed. The only reason I have managed this is because I could afford to buy it. Surely this is not only wrong but immoral in a national health system ?

The argument of 'is it safe ?' doesn't hold water . It has been approved through extensive and thorough trials across both the United States and most of Europe. It is no more or less safe than any new drug.

The argument of 'some people get nausea and vomiting and other side effects ' yes this is true. As do some people on all kinds of drugs . I personally can't tolerate penicillin - doesn't mean it should not have been allowed to save the lives of millions for 70 years. !

Last but not least.. what happens when you get to a healthy weight and stop taking it ? Well I guess it's exactly the same as blood pressure medication. You take it when it creeps up again .. perhaps it just becomes one of those drugs that you take lifelong on and off to maintain good health ..

Far far cheaper than treating all the current diseases associated with obesity and morbid obesity..

YABU - we can't afford it
YANBU - it's a false economy not to make it readily available to people with obesity if they want to try it.

No.
It doesn’t address the root cause as to why the western world is getting progressively more obese and unhealthy. The money would be better spent on making healthy foods more affordable.

We need to understand why somewhere like Japan has an adult obesity rate of 4-5% and the UK 28%. If it is down to type of food and lifestyle then that needs to be our starting point.

Say the NHS did prescribe it and someone started it at 18….would it then be funded for that person for life as people put weight on again when they stop? How would that ever be affordable or sustainable?

But they are not a magic bullet, they work best if you are motivated, alongside diet and exercise etc. dishing them out to whoever turns up who haven't tried diet and exercise first because they think they work like magic is pointless because they are expensive

No, it would not be dealing with the root causes of why so many people are overweight in the first place. Are people expected to be on these medications for life as well? There is a serious issue with weight in this Country, but I do not think that this would be the way to go about dealing with these issues.

I agree with Ladykenya above

For those concerned about the cost, it will become much cheaper once it's off patent (after around 7 years) and any company can produce it.

I imagine the NHS may become more interested at that point

Still cheaper than diabetes, heart disease, joint replacements, cancer - diabetes alone costs billions to treat and considering the diets of younger people is only going to increase.

You make a compelling case OP. @QueenOfHiraeth also has a point although we'd pay for prescriptions? But a trial would sort those questions quickly.

I think the hard reality is that any financial benefits from treating obesity this way and reducing reliance on the NHS is just too far away. The NHS is on its knees right now just trying to provide the basics. There isn't the money in the short term to fund a massive program of prescribing new drugs en mass in the hope that it will reduce obesity levels and NHS costs. The massive hole in public finances needs to be addressed first and will probably take at least a decade.

Commander Vimes boots springs to mind.

I think there's a lot of misconceptions around the drugs. Ultimately you still have to follow a healthy diet and exercise for it to work. It's not a wonder drug. What it does do is help the cravings so sticking to a healthier regime is easier. It allows time to create better eating habits and exercise habits before reaching a healthy weight. Less than 5% of morbidly obese people lose and succeed in keeping the weight off. People are quick enough to criticise people for being overweight and costing the NHS but when there's a potential answer they are against it full stop.

The less than 5% is without any medical intervention!

Providing these WL injections through the NHS is a lot more expensive than just dishing out the pens.

They would need to do all the duty of care pieces around them - blood tests, GP appointments (rarer than hens teeth!), support and education using them, weight loss clinics etc that don't get done when buying privately.

The NHS will do a cost vs benefit analysis to see if/where it fits at some point, but I can't see it ever being easily available to your average obese person. It will be severely/morbidly obese only with significant related health conditions.

there is a world wide shortage.
I take the drug in tablet form from NHS - occasional shortages, has been more reliable recently.
A friend obtains the injectable version privately - still gets occasional shortages.

Agree they are not magic, there are unpleasant side effects for some, some don't respond or stop responding, and it needs commitment and hard work to keep to it.

It is very motivating to do the hard work alongside it if you are the one that has had to shell out the hundreds of pounds to buy it! 🙈

No thanks I’d like there to be functioning mental health provision for children and adults first and easily available ADHD medication.

The same common side effects as many otc and prescribed drugs. Nausea, sickness, headaches etc.. rare : pancreatitis. But this can be said to any common medication. (Not necessarily pancreatitis) but heart palpitations, blood clots etc are all 'rare' side effects related to common drugs that benefit hundreds of thousands of people without incident. Even sodding tampons carry a 'fatal risk' .. of TSS !

As far as I’m aware and you can shout me down if I’m wrong but MOST of these drugs are nothing more than appetite suppressants. Would it not be better to plug the money into drumming into people the benefits of better diet and making sure healthy food/gym membership comes at a reasonable price.

I say this as someone who got their arse in gear and lost five stone. I have gone from a size 18 to a size 10

I think you may not understand the effect the drug has and the reason it is so revolutionary.. it pits simply is a 'weekly injection of will power' the secret ingredient that scuppers most diets. The reason diets don't work is because maintaining that level of will power to lose 4,6 or even 10 stone is just not sustainable. The injections actually make it quite hard to eat.

I have actually found myself wandering around a supermarket at 2pm having eaten a bowl of fruit and yogurt at 7am - looking for something to temp me to eat - and left with nothing. It literally turns off the food chatter .

Meanwhile only the wealthy get to enjoy being a healthy weight. ? How long to wait for the poorest (and most obese of the population ?) or do we just all enjoy health that money brings whilst they die of heart disease, stroke , complications of diabetes ? And the associated cost . How is that 'money saving' ?

Bupa will not cover it, nor should they.

YANBU

You would rather people die young of all the diseases associated to obesity ? and pay the associated long and costly road to early death .. rather than fund a drug that prevents it ?

Although your reply neatly demonstrates the prejudice out there. You don't want to fund 'weight loss drugs' ... how about if we change the name to 'stroke reduction drugs' or 'Coranary prevention drugs' ? Is that more palatable ?

Rather than helping stupid fat people who have bought it upon themselves and just need to eat less and move more ?

@Bignanna my point exactly. Surely once you stop taking it, all the weight comes back on as it's not taught you about nutrition, calories etc.

There is loose skin . I have it. I know how annoying it is.. then again I have reduced my risk of heart disease, stroke and reversed my diabetes - so I'll live with skin !

.... and yet . Those of us who have successfully managed to lose weight on it through private online prescriptions, have had absolutely no 'supervision' .

Is that because our money (purchasing power) bequeaths us with a miraculous amount of intelligence and the poor and fat are of course naturally stupid ?

I'd love to have it but can't afford it. My GP can't give me any help - including referral to sw/ww/ injections/ medication because I'm not diabetic. If I was diabetic it would open me up to so many more options. Seems a strange way to operate

Why should the already underfunded NHS have to fund blatant lack of willpower? I’ll admit that I’m a bit overweight at the minute. I need to get a grip, eat less and move more, so I will. It’s that simple. I don’t feel the need to place the blame, or the bill for my own bad choices on the state.