AIBU to think it's time for the NHS to do itself a favour and make WL injections readily available.

[nextdoorconundrum]

I've posted about this before but following the news today from the chief scientific officer for the British Heart Foundation - Professor Brian Williams - that the health benefits of these drugs appears to be beneficial in the reduction of heart disease, high bp, stroke , arthritis and even Alzheimer's.. (interviews on R4 today programme and channel 4 news just now for anyone wanting to hear all he had to say ) .: Is it not time now for the NHS to actually save itself the fortune it spends in treating obesity related diseases - rather than obesity itself.

There is also something highly questionable about a drug that is readily available to people who can afford it - but is mostly not available to those who most need it . With extremely narrow parameters and some ridiculous hoops to jump through before being 'allowed it on the NHS.(Obesity affects 39% of women in the most deprived areas as opposed to 22% in the least )

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg189/documents/health-inequalities-briefing-2#:~:text=The%20greatest%20rates%20of%20adult,in%20the%20least%20deprived%20areas.

I say this as a financially comfortable mc woman who has lost 4 stone on WL injections. I no longer cost the NHS any money in BP drugs, Sleep Apnea machine, Corticosteroids for knees etc - in fact for the first time in 26 years I only take thyroxine which is not something that can be reversed. The only reason I have managed this is because I could afford to buy it. Surely this is not only wrong but immoral in a national health system ?

The argument of 'is it safe ?' doesn't hold water . It has been approved through extensive and thorough trials across both the United States and most of Europe. It is no more or less safe than any new drug.

The argument of 'some people get nausea and vomiting and other side effects ' yes this is true. As do some people on all kinds of drugs . I personally can't tolerate penicillin - doesn't mean it should not have been allowed to save the lives of millions for 70 years. !

Last but not least.. what happens when you get to a healthy weight and stop taking it ? Well I guess it's exactly the same as blood pressure medication. You take it when it creeps up again .. perhaps it just becomes one of those drugs that you take lifelong on and off to maintain good health ..

Far far cheaper than treating all the current diseases associated with obesity and morbid obesity..

YABU - we can't afford it
YANBU - it's a false economy not to make it readily available to people with obesity if they want to try it.

You don’t need to lose that 10 stone though to improve your life. I am morbidly obese and now lost 2 stone on these meds and even that has improved my quality of life quite a bit. You don’t need to aim for perfection. I’ll probably never be a healthy weight. I’m ok with that. Any loss will help improve your health

Did you have to pay for the meds? I wish I could access them..

Yes I do x appreciate I am fortunate to be able to afford it

@BirdFeederFun if you scroll back you should be able to find my post from earlier on this thread. My bmi was 44 and I am now down to bmi of 28 through diet and incredibly minimal exercise. Seriously minimal exercise due to disability.
No injections, no surgery, no medical interventions. Utter fear drove me to it if I'm honest but I am so glad it did. We can either sit around looking at statistics and hoping someone comes along to do it for us, or we can start the changes immediately and go from there. It is up to us whether we like that fact or not. I don't say that to be horrible or mean at all, I have been where you are after all. I say it because it's truth. You are capable so prove it to yourself. Eight months from now you could be so far from where you are, you can reach "just obese" with a fairly small weight loss, then it's a bit more to reach "overweight" and by then you're well on your way to "healthy weight". Do it! Good luck 🤞

I’ve just ordered it via the doctor online at Superdrug, awaiting confirmation that they are willing for me to have it. You have to fill in a medical questionnaire, giving your GP’s address, plus two photos to verify you are genuine, one on scales, one side view. I am nervous about it! I may not qualify as I have some medical conditions.

It cost £199 for one month including delivery in cold container

There are cheaper providers MedExpress start at £140

This sounds awful, and as someone who suffers from anxiety it's enough to put me off.

OP, I really think you are ignoring this question.

What happens when people stop taking the drug?

I would be really interested to hear your answer because this, for me, is the sticking point.

OP is ignoring this question. I completely agree with you. I say that as someone who has struggled with their weight and relationship with food my entire adult life. How I would love a magic answer! But there isn't one, unless you are prepared to inject yourself for life. Which I am not.

@smallbluethings there's a lot of videos on YouTube of the side effects and many people talk about it's effect on mental health. Sensible to be cautious for this reason as you say.

Y'all could just stop over eating?

Stop papering over the proverbial cracks and denying those with diabetes their medication.

Diabetics could just start eating healthier or manage their sugars better on metformin.

Oh thanks, I'm so pleased you have explained it to me! Now I feel stupid for not knowing the answer.

Interesting. No one really talks about it do they? I really think it should be more well publicised.

@Ozanj Mounjaro is specifically a drug for Diabetics.

It isnt designed to be an appetite suppressant as some people in this thread seem to have mistakenly determined.

It is designed to increase the hormones that enable insulin production and the processing of glucose. The improved processing of glucose does as a side effect help to reduce appetite but that's because the insulin is balancing the glucose levels better rather than allowing to get too high which increases hunger.

Metformin is less effective.

What is Mounjaro? And how does it work?
Mounjaro belongs to a class of medications that mimic two hormones involved in digestion, which are glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) and glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide (GIP).

A delicate balance: Glucagon is a hormone that your pancreas makes to help regulate your blood sugar levels. Glucagon increases your blood sugar level and prevents it from dropping too low, whereas insulin, another hormone, decreases blood sugar levels. For people without diabetes, insulin and glucagon work as a team, to keep blood sugar in balance.
In a person without diabetes, the process of eating signals the brain and small intestines to release GLP-1 and GIP. These hormones then signal the pancreas to release insulin. Finally, insulin works throughout other cells in the body to decrease blood sugar levels and promote the metabolism of sugars.
In the case of diabetes, however, the effects that GLP-1, GIP and sugar have on the pancreas are weakened or absent.
Enter Mounjaro, which is designed to fool your body into thinking that the drug is GLP-1 and GIP. By mimicking these hormones, the drug does the following:
Increases insulin secretion, resulting in lower blood sugar
Decreases glucagon production (For those with diabetes, unchecked glucagon production can result in blood sugars that are too high.)
Slows gastric emptying (process by which the contents of the stomach are emptied into the duodenum, the first part of the small intestine).
Furthermore, by mimicking GLP-1 and GIP, Mounjaro can decrease a person’s appetite and food intake, which often leads to weight loss.

I have a friend who has lost a lot of weight on Mounjaro. The interesting thing (to me at least) is that she said it was a revelation when she would have a normal portion of food and feel full. She said she assumed this whole time slender people were saying no because they had much better willpower than her and they were still hungry but just better at saying no, but she's come to realise that they actually just don't want any more food so it's easy to say no. And I thought that was really interesting actually and I wonder if some people just miss or don't have as strong a response to being 'full' as others naturally. If that's the case, then injections like this could be a large part of solving the issue.

Yet a vegan diet is actually more effective, cheaper and doesn't have the risk of thyroid cancer. Instead of adding to the NHS bill we could just ban the sale of meat and dairy products.

www.pcrm.org/news/news-releases/move-over-wegovy-plant-based-diet-may-be-better-answer-weight-loss

OP you’re borderline evangelical about it - and in many ways I can see why.

Let’s be clear that some of the statements you have made so emphatically aren’t from scientific or medical knowledge, but from your own research which is fine. I don’t doubt it is in some cases ‘a wonder drug’. Do I believe at the moment it should be widely available - 100% no.

If you knew anything about clinical trials you’d understand it can’t be widely available to anyone who needs to lose ‘some’ weight, despite what appear great tertiary benefits. That is why GPs can’t prescribe it like that even if there were no supply issues.

There’s an argument that aspirin wouldn’t even get through a clinical trial these days because the mechanism of action stated has to be so specific.

You realise that the chance of you not putting it all back on and more is very slim?
Losing it is (relatively)easy? Keeping it off is the difficult part.

30% of people on weight loss injections do not put anything back on.

30% do gain weight after stopping but not to the original weight. Will be approx 20-30% below the final weight.

30% will gain weight to their original weight. But the fat distribution (eg visceral fat) and fat levels will be permently reduced.

There is further research underway but the assumption is that the first and last group combine weight loss injections with weight bearing exercise. It’s why consultants tell you to lift weights while doing this.

I was responding to the person who said she had reduced her BMI without imjections

@mm81736 yes I do realise the possibility of this. Though given my weight loss is due to my medical scare last year I have exactly the motivation needed to keep it off as there's no chance I'd risk scaring my family or leaving my children when I can control the risk with basic dietary focus. So I see your point but a weight loss injection would do nothing to change that anyway and by doing it myself I've been able to learn proper diet and health rather than a potential magic wand approach. This isn't meant to be judgy or anything like that. I just wouldn't want anyone putting themselves at risk or depriving diabetics of their medication when they could lose the weight in a healthier way.

I’ve chickened out! The thought of “Wegovy face” and the possibility of it making my gastric reflux worse has put me off. I’ve got a poor appetite anyway, so that’ll help!

The PATIENTS fail at preventative (prophylactic) care.!!!!!