To ask if you believe radical remission is possible?

[Edenspirits73]

I’ve just read this book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Radical-Remission-Surviving-Cancer-Against/dp/0062268740

It’s written by an American researcher, lecturer and oncologist and charts her experiences of gathering cases of radical remission from all over the world. It’s presented in quite a scientific way & she charts the 9 things that all the people who went into radical remission & had in common. It’s fascinating too.

Ironically it was recommended to me when my dad was dying of bowel cancer - end stage for him.

It’s a real book of hope (but not false hope) as it charts a largely unreported area of health - and an idea that people survive and thrive even end stage 4 cancer.

So am I being unreasonable to believe? Obviously these are real case studies too as she felt it was a totally unreported area of medicine but it feels like believing that you can heal from cancer is not a mainstream belief at all - it’s almost contraversial and held up as false hope I think.

Intererested in thoughts!

@PouthSark
Thank you for this.
You put what I was clumsily trying to say so eloquently -

It can if people are desperate (which is very understandable when youre ill and vulnerable). For example if people use these things instead of regular treatment (if someone choses that OK it's anyone's right, but the decision has to be properly informed), if someone spends money they haven't got buying herbs and supplements or on radical dietary changes, or if someone falls victim to charlatans out there. And as others have said it feeds into the narrative that do things right, you survive, do things wrong, and you don't.

@Edenspirits73

Thanks. I’m going to leave the thread now.
I really was just wanting a conversation about a book I found interesting and instead got a massive pile on. It’s actually a bit upsetting so time to go - thanks for being kind though xx

^^^

Sorry about the pile on - some people aren't really to hear this - doesn't make it any less true.
They should've just scrolled on by - but some people like a fight.
I saw my dm life style - loved her but had some right arguments with her.... there was some serious stuff going off - so not a healthy life style.
This is a topic worth exploring

I don't disagree that lifestyle choices affect health including cancer risk, that's been medically shown. However, this book isn't saying these things will reduce the risk of you developing cancer, it's saying (or inferring) do these things and you'll survive cancer. That's very very different.

If you ever took a wander over to threads on food/weightloss/the usual MN Aren't Fat People Awful threads (they generally fetch up around Sunday teatime), you'd find that potatoes, carrots, peas, bananas/all fruit really, rice, swede, sweet potatoes, corn, milk and dairy on the whole and pretty much everything else is described as poison.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

If you ever took a wander over to threads on food/weightloss/the usual MN Aren't Fat People Awful threads (they generally fetch up around Sunday teatime), you'd find that potatoes, carrots, peas, bananas/all fruit really, rice, swede, sweet potatoes, corn, milk and dairy on the whole and pretty much everything else is described as poison.

^^^

Nothing to do with this thread.

Sugar effects my joints - fact - painful

I eat fats , protein and carbs

I was saying cutting out sugar does not meaning cutting out those things and just eating organic vegetables like you stated .

I didn't make the original post. However, many people are caught by the 'sugarfree = all fruit/most veg/all grains/all dairy/carbs must be eliminated' lies and end up, frankly, dead sooner.

The radical 'this could save your life' diets pedaled in these circumstances aren't 'don't eat cake, stop having sugar in your coffee'. You are interpreting sugar as refined sucrose rather than the wider definition that encompasses all carbs.

I know plenty of 'healthy' people with cancer and plenty of 'unhealthy' people without. Likewise having experienced trauma. In something that affects 50% of people it will be simple to find people who fit any criteria you choose.

'Having a red car increases cancer? Gosh yes uncle Tom always had red cars and he died of cancer, there is something in it I think.'

Some of the 9 steps seem rather contradictory, or at least difficult when facing a terminal diagnosis. Completely alter a life time of eating habits and make sure you only eat 'good' food but reduced stress. I would find it stressful to monitor what I eat that closely.

My friend who is now in year five of her 'a year left to live' diagnosis is enjoying her remaining time, she is still off to gigs and festivals and Scotland rugby matches, usually with several glasses of the strong stuff. Is she doing the right thing because of her positive attitude and lack of stress or the wrong thing because she is drinking alcohol and eating what she fancies?

@Runningupthecurtains
That was my point
Refined sugars bad
Carbs good / absolutely essential.

And isn't alcohol poison ?

Just to add that I like a drink so it won't stop me.
Or will I stop eating the occasional chocolate- especially at Christmas.

Everything in moderation

Your friend is absolutely right ti grab life and go for it.

A little of what you like does you good.

I also believe when your numbers up , your numbers up.
Anyone could be hit with a bus tomorrow.

And yes I eat healthy, but with treats chucked in , just not every day, all day.

I don't diet either.
I personally think slimming diets are abusive to your body , but good healthy food - including steak, butter , potatoes, fresh or frozen vegetables are really good.

Junk in junk out / some people never eat vegetables- and once retired don't go out for a walk each day

Slightly o/t but the whole narrative around lifestyle choices causing cancer does annoy me too. I know that poor food/life choices doesn’t help but I know far more “healthy” people that have had died from cancer than “unhealthy” people. It just is what it is.

Yep, it's one thing to say certain excesses can increase you risks (I doubt there are any smokers out there who don't know it increases the likelihood of cancer) but anything that verges on you'd be well if you'd done this /not done that/ fought harder you'd be well now is totally unfair on sufferers and their families.

The inference that you don't die if fight hard enough, want to live badly enough is so disrespectful to those who fight tooth and nail but just don't make it and are devastated by the realisation they will be leaving their loved ones behind.

Some times people survive against the odds, others have a fairly hopeful prognosis but still don't make it. In both cases it's just how a unique individual body responds to a unique individual cancer/treatment regime.

Well, you're not the only one leaving the post OP. As someone who has been vegetarian for 30 years, doesn’t drink alcohol, exercises, has a good diet, and isn't overweight, I was diagnosed with cancer, which was genetic.

I met with a specialist who is a world leader in my gene mutation, and he advised that most studies aren't worth the paper they are written on. I've been cancer free for 15 years, and I'm one of the lucky ones.

I find acupuncture helps me and like most in my cancer centre was given acupuncture, Riki, dietary advice, meditation, aromatherapy, reflexology and counselling. Alongside operations, chemo and radiotherapy I'm here after 10 years but not everyone I knew is nobody has done any research and I don't think the complimentary therapies saved me a trial is a lot more than 9 people surely a PHD should have had far more rigorous research anyway? These posts stop people getting the treatment they need

I feel like cancer actually disproportionately affects those with a healthy lifestyle if anything. It's mostly in the genes I think. My dad had a very healthy lifestyle and didn't even make average life expectancy for prostate cancer, it was very aggressive. Although his useless oncologist didn't help any 😡

@Firefly1987 I agree, my family has the BRCA1 gene, I've been tested and I was lucky and didn't inherit it but I saw my grandmother and 3 aunts die because of that gene, saw young cousins, some only babies, lose their mothers. Nothing to do with fighting, eating healthily or anything else. It was the gene.

The Have a Strong Reason to Live makes me really angry. My poor aunt who lost her first baby to a still birth was a new mum with a tiny baby when she found out she was terminally ill. I can't imagine a stronger reason to live.

Unfortunately you only have to sit in a Palliative Care or Oncology team for about 5 minutes to know cancer does not disproportionately affect the healthy.

Some cancers eg breast, prostate are very common and most of us will know someone with them regardless of lifestyle
Some people are genetically extremely unlucky - they stand out in the memory for being younger than all the other patients
Some cancers are overwhelmingly lifestyle related eg lung, head and neck
And some cancers are increasingly lifestyle related eg bowel, pancreas

With breast and ovarian cancer the big issue is BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes. You can live as healthily as you like it won't make a difference. As for bowel cancer well BRCA1 is again a culprit, it can also be ovarian cancer spreading so a proportion of bowel cancers will be the same. Then for men the BRCA gene also increases the risk of bowel, breast and pancreas cancers. The BRCA gene mutation also increases the risk of prostate cancer and more likely to be an aggressive form.

So yes choosing to be born into the wrong family with the wrong genes is obviously a lifestyle choice isn't it.

We can now blame people who die with cancer for the lifestyle choices and their not fighting hard enough. Makes me sick and angry.

I am sure there are many more cancer genes that haven’t been identified yet. A mutation of BRCA1 was found in people descending from Westray in the Orkney isles recently and there must surely be more within small communities all over in the world. We are convinced that the cancer in my family is genetic in some way even though the tests say no, it’s too much of a coincidence otherwise. (But maybe we are just in denial at the bad luck we’ve had!)

@Pippifer Yes I think they will find more gene mutations. On the other side of my family my grandmother and her daughter both died of cervical cancer and I wonder if that is a coincidence. When my other grandmother died no one knew about BRCA1 so her DDs had no warning, the same with her first DD by the time the 2nd one was diagnosed BRCA1 was identified so her sisters were told, for another it was too late and for another it meant a radical mastectomy and oophorectomy. I have cousins who had had the same surgeries, I am so lucky it missed me.

We have even found that doctors don't understand the risk to men and men in the family were denied the screening until it was challenged.

I did look into getting tested for the gene at one point but it didn't seem like I'd be eligible. Do they only do it if someone in the family currently has cancer and gets tested? It would help to know if we have the gene that causes aggressive prostate cancer since my brothers are coming up to that age and don't seem overly bothered about getting PSA tests. If it turned out my dad had the gene it'd answer a lot of questions I've always had about the progression of his disease. Also I believe I may be more at risk of breast cancer through it.

It must be such a weight off your mind to know you don't have the gene. So sorry to hear about your grandmother and aunts

I felt like I'd won the lottery when I got the results, I have 4 children, 8 GC and it was more relief for them than me.

No one in my family had cancer when I had my test. Originally my father's sisters were asked to have tests, then their daughters. The attitude seemed to be that it only went down the female line which isn't true and that it only affected women which also isn't true. I found out that someone else in the family, daughter of one of the brothers, had got a test so I asked for one. My brother was refused a test, he lived in a different trust to me, and when I mentioned that to the genetics doctor I saw he said he would write and complain, he is quite high up in genetics and on lots of international projects. My brother got the test.

This all started nearly 30 years ago, so things have probably changed. I think the testing was very new back in the 90s and initially I was just offered ovarian scans (it seems to mainly affect ovaries in my famly for some reason but my granny's sister did have breast cancer.)

Your GP could probably advise good luck.

@Iwasafool Thank you-maybe I will ask the GP if it's possible for me to have a test. I know it's quite expensive, but worth it to know either way.

I felt like I'd won the lottery when I got the results, I have 4 children, 8 GC and it was more relief for them than me.

I can imagine! So happy for you, glad you were able to push for a test for your brother as well.

I agree that she's simply a charlatan. I wonder if she's fallen foul of the UK Cancer Act? It was enacted specifically to punish people pushing quack cures for cancer.