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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

UK teens the most unhappy in Europe

290 replies

coffeeandteav · 29/08/2024 16:33

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/29/uk-teenagers-low-life-satisfaction-europe

Why is this? Many reasons discussed in the media today. What do you think has caused this?

I can say as a teacher and having a 16 year old it is sadly very true.

Lots of suggestions some sensible others not so much.
Why are we different to Europe? They have video games and tech. So what is it?

1.	The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though)
2.	Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.
3.	Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and its cheap and relaxed.
4.	Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.
5.	Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.
6.	Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors.  Toilet control.
7.	Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.
8.	Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.
9.	Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.
10.	Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true)
11.	Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?
12.	Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)
13.	Too much homework. 
14.	The diet.
15.15.	Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth. 
16.	Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Anymore?

OP posts:
Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 04:43

I'm not sure what the reason is, but I'm struggling to grasp why the UK is any worse than any other European country?

Kianai · 30/08/2024 04:53

Nuggetnuggety · 29/08/2024 22:56

My 10 year old daughter has friends who aren’t allowed to the nearest park without a parent! These parents think they are keeping their kids safe.

But there’s so much judgement. If that 10 yr old has an accident or worse people would be falling over themselves to say “I would never have let my dc do this”. Look at the Kirsty Interrailing drama.

It is also VERY dependant on where you live. In some areas if the UK, you would have to be verging on criminally neglectful to let your 10 year old out to the local park on their own. Gang activity, drugs, stabbings, groups of men who find it culturally acceptable to harass girl children.

If you live somewhere that this isn't a daily issue then it is easy to judge an 'overly' worried parent.

Nuggetnuggety · 30/08/2024 05:00

I'm not sure what the reason is, but I'm struggling to grasp why the UK is any worse than any other European country?

Is it to do with growing increases in relative poverty for children & working adults maybe? not sure if there are similar patterns in Europe.

We also have much higher income inequality. “Income inequality in the UK has grown more than in most OECD countries. Today the level of UK income inequality is high by international standards”

Sweetteaplease · 30/08/2024 05:02

Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 04:43

I'm not sure what the reason is, but I'm struggling to grasp why the UK is any worse than any other European country?

Culture, or lack of

OfficerChurlish · 30/08/2024 05:35

Maybe the fact that four years ago they had the right to live work and study, for however long or short a period they wanted, in 31 countries, and for some reason that absolutely no one can explain, that has now been reduced to 2?

LittleLantern123 · 30/08/2024 06:12

Kianai · 30/08/2024 04:53

It is also VERY dependant on where you live. In some areas if the UK, you would have to be verging on criminally neglectful to let your 10 year old out to the local park on their own. Gang activity, drugs, stabbings, groups of men who find it culturally acceptable to harass girl children.

If you live somewhere that this isn't a daily issue then it is easy to judge an 'overly' worried parent.

Edited

Our 'local park' is a half hour walk away and was the scene of a very famous murder! Shockingly I didn't allow my kids to go alone at primary school age.
I do think we have too much navel gazing amongst all generations but especially teenagers. Every other video that pops up on Tik Tok is basically telling them that they cannot be happy, they must have some mental health issues.....feel nervous? You have anxiety! Feel sad that your goldfish died? You have depression! Feel overwhelmed leaving school and starting an apprenticeship? You have burn out! and on it goes, perfectly normal feelings that everyone will have been through in life suddenly need to be 'treated' and discussed at length.
Perhaps a little bit of the 'British stiff upper lip' making some sort of comeback wouldn't be such a bad thing, it would free up services for those in genuine need as mental health services wouldn't be swamped with hoards of slightly unhappy people looking for a magic cure.

Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 06:19

report

Children's society? Did a survey? Did they? How many children and parents did they survey? 15 year olds? How many from the uk filled out this survey? And how many from Europe.

I call bullshit on their data. Yes, we all know there are problems in the UK e.g. NHS is very underfunded and mental health support for teens and youth is practically non-existent.

But how many mn users participated in their survey, did you? and are all our 15-year-olds more miserable than their European counterparts? I'm not so sure.

all the 15-year-olds I know are off, out and about playing football, girls doing sport, off on holiday with their parents. next year collecting GCSE results. none of what is reported in the survey is what I see in the life of any of the teens I know round here.

Yes, life is a bit shit. Or can be. Wink But my dc aren't unhappy. Are yours?

Blueybanditbingochilli · 30/08/2024 06:20

Nuggetnuggety · 29/08/2024 22:45

Of the millions out of work

most of the 2.7 million "inactive" under-25s were students

Among 25- to 49-year-olds, 1.1 million people did not work because of caring responsibilities. Nearly one million people in this age group were not working because of illness.

The main reasons that 3.5 million over-50s were out of the job market were illness and early retiremen
The rise in over-50s inactivity appears to be highest for lower-middle income workers, and workers from lower income industries and occupations.

Im not sure how you force sick people to work.

The reasons are basically immaterial - the fact is we don’t have enough taxpayers for the level of service we expect. It can’t happen because we aren’t raising the tax revenue and the welfare bill is a shocker. It’s not a value judgement, just a fact.

KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 06:24

Jifmicroliquid · 29/08/2024 18:22

I really do think the weather here plays a massive part. I am so affected by the weather and I get very down and depressed on the grey, dreary days.
I imagine that a lot of kids/teens feel the same but maybe don’t see the link or recognise that it might be this affecting their general mood.

Have you been to Scandinavia? Northern Germany?

TooMuchRedMaybe · 30/08/2024 06:39

KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 06:24

Have you been to Scandinavia? Northern Germany?

Do British people actually think Scandinavia/Nordics and Germany is as gloomy as Britain? It really isn’t. I already posted this earlier in the thread but as a summary:

We have more daylight hours in Stockholm than you do in London per year.

There was 1290mm of rain in London in 2023 whereas only 555mm of rain in Stockholm and 2/3 of that is in the form of snow in the winter, so rainy and gloomy. The dark winters here feels OK because the snow brightens it up and since the summers are really light, dry and comfortably warm (not hot) we at least get that to look forward to.

RedToothBrush · 30/08/2024 06:40

The UK also has the highest number of girls age 15 who have had sex in Europe. So do culturally have pressures that other kids don't, and I find it hard not to link that with the internet.

KillerTomato7 · 30/08/2024 06:52

Begby6789 · 29/08/2024 20:36

I think it is the rise of social media. There is a step change in teen behaviour where many hang out in bigger groups (online and in school) nasty sm conversations are rife and involve kids from all over the area, not just students in class or even school. Teenagers can send photos or videos in a instant which can be used to humiliate an individual to a large audience. Children can be in fear of being the next victim. Some students can be absolutely vile on social media. Not helped by parents allowing kids younger than 13 on these sm sites. Years ago, home was a break from any problems at school, now there is no escape if you have upset the wrong person. I think sm has made the world a more threatening place to many teens.

It’s not clear why social media would be causing more problems for children in the uk than elsewhere in Europe.

justbeingasmartarse · 30/08/2024 06:53

coffeeandteav · 29/08/2024 16:33

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/29/uk-teenagers-low-life-satisfaction-europe

Why is this? Many reasons discussed in the media today. What do you think has caused this?

I can say as a teacher and having a 16 year old it is sadly very true.

Lots of suggestions some sensible others not so much.
Why are we different to Europe? They have video games and tech. So what is it?

1.	The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though)
2.	Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.
3.	Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and its cheap and relaxed.
4.	Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.
5.	Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.
6.	Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors.  Toilet control.
7.	Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.
8.	Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.
9.	Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.
10.	Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true)
11.	Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?
12.	Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)
13.	Too much homework. 
14.	The diet.
15.15.	Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth. 
16.	Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Anymore?

  1. Summers haven’t been to bad recently - getting up to 30 degrees (40 a few years ago)
  2. That probably impacts more on parents
  3. Yes - I don’t think there are any youth clubs where I live.
  4. Maybe that makes up for the lack of clubs?
  5. Yes - I think a lot of them feel demoralised
  6. I don’t know - does that actually happen?
  7. Amen. Home ownership is little more than a dream for many
  8. erasmus is really only relevant if your a language student
  9. ????
  10. Not sure why that would be specific to the uk?
  11. I don’t know. Does it?
  12. Er.. what? 🤢
  13. You’re meant to do homework 🤷‍♀️
  14. Yes - to much ultra processed food
  15. mmm I don’t know that pensioners are rich exactly although not all are destitute
  16. That will impact on all ages
KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 06:55

TooMuchRedMaybe · 30/08/2024 06:39

Do British people actually think Scandinavia/Nordics and Germany is as gloomy as Britain? It really isn’t. I already posted this earlier in the thread but as a summary:

We have more daylight hours in Stockholm than you do in London per year.

There was 1290mm of rain in London in 2023 whereas only 555mm of rain in Stockholm and 2/3 of that is in the form of snow in the winter, so rainy and gloomy. The dark winters here feels OK because the snow brightens it up and since the summers are really light, dry and comfortably warm (not hot) we at least get that to look forward to.

Well, lovely as Stockholm can be, when I've visited family, it's very often cold and dark. So just blaming the climate in the UK for unhappy youth seems an invalid correlation.

KillerTomato7 · 30/08/2024 06:56

Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 06:19

report

Children's society? Did a survey? Did they? How many children and parents did they survey? 15 year olds? How many from the uk filled out this survey? And how many from Europe.

I call bullshit on their data. Yes, we all know there are problems in the UK e.g. NHS is very underfunded and mental health support for teens and youth is practically non-existent.

But how many mn users participated in their survey, did you? and are all our 15-year-olds more miserable than their European counterparts? I'm not so sure.

all the 15-year-olds I know are off, out and about playing football, girls doing sport, off on holiday with their parents. next year collecting GCSE results. none of what is reported in the survey is what I see in the life of any of the teens I know round here.

Yes, life is a bit shit. Or can be. Wink But my dc aren't unhappy. Are yours?

It seems a little contradictory to criticize the study for its lack of good data, but then suggest that anecdotes from your immediate circle would be more valid.

blubberball · 30/08/2024 07:16

I have nieces and nephews in Germany. I'd say that things do seem to be more geared towards play when they're young. They don't start school until they're 6 or 7. Society seems to be more child friendly/family friendly as a whole. Plenty of massive parks and playgrounds. It feels safer walking around. My nephew is 8 and has been walking to school alone or with his friends, and gets the transport to town alone on a regular basis. I wouldn't feel safe or comfortable about that at all here.

soupfiend · 30/08/2024 07:17

KillerTomato7 · 30/08/2024 06:56

It seems a little contradictory to criticize the study for its lack of good data, but then suggest that anecdotes from your immediate circle would be more valid.

Not contradictory at all, thats the point I would have thought?

GalacticalFarce · 30/08/2024 07:22

Lack of activity and being outdoors plays a big factor.
Most people don't get out often and when we do because it's a nice day, then places are really busy and it's stressful getting there.
We don't spend enough time in calm outdoor spaces.

Sunnydays12345678 · 30/08/2024 07:23

Based in southern rural Germany (originally from the UK)

  1. The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though).

Big difference. Summer seems to last a month or so longer (not in the maritime north, but the rest of the country). More time outside here and most are noticeably sensibly tanned at the end of the summer. Lots of time at the local lidos.

  1. Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.

Very much. Children walk alone earlier and still meet on the streets (chalk drawings everywhere, even in the cities). Older people and other parents will step in and it isn’t seen as weird.

  1. Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and it’s cheap and relaxed.

Lots to do locally so there aren’t big commutes.

Didn’t know youth clubs were gone from the uk.

  1. Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.

Agree. It seems to come with much more pressure too and often a commute.

The exception here is swimming, which is taken seriously from age five. I do think this is important and there should be more emphasis on swimming in the UK.

  1. Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.

Has increased but not as much as the UK and overall less costs as housing cheaper (unless in a major city).

  1. Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors. Toilet control.

I hated this rubbish at my school in the UK. I remember it as a place of petty rules to be rebelled against, rather than a place of learning.

  1. Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.

In the countryside yes and many houses inherited. Most cities have got much more expensive over the past 15 years.

  1. Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.
  1. Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.

Independent play early on will feed into resilience/ability to cope.

  1. Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true).

Far more informal play and children are generally left to sort themselves out. In Germany there still is this freedom to walk, though in the cities this may be changing.

From children I know in the UK, an issue is that where there is unwillingness to let children go out and about they are given screens and can easily isolate themselves. I think Soham had a huge impact. That really was the case that could have been any of us.

  1. Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?

Shorter nursery and school days. Positive for the kids, but a career killer.

  1. Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)

  2. Too much homework.

Still a fair amount here and I wish it was more creative in the younger years.

  1. The diet.

Overall much better, much more fruit and veg which most kids will eat. Good food provided at kindergarten.

Obviously not perfect and still has its issues - Haribos and salami.

15.15. Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth.

  1. Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Nuggetnuggety · 30/08/2024 07:25

the fact is we don’t have enough taxpayers for the level of service we expect. It can’t happen because we aren’t raising the tax revenue and the welfare bill is a shocker. It’s not a value judgement, just a fact.

I think you have misunderstood. I said similar & am fully aware of the facts. I just said there is a need to target wealth as we don’t have enough income tax payers.

KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 07:26

KnittedCardi · 29/08/2024 22:48

Do we have any insight into why Romania is the second happiest, when they have a pretty low standard of living, and all strive to emigrate the minute they can?

Good point, and one I was wondering about!

Sunnydays12345678 · 30/08/2024 07:27

KillerTomato7 · 30/08/2024 06:52

It’s not clear why social media would be causing more problems for children in the uk than elsewhere in Europe.

A possibility is much more early independent play creating more self assurance and strong local friendship groups.

Sweetteaplease · 30/08/2024 07:29

KillerTomato7 · 30/08/2024 06:52

It’s not clear why social media would be causing more problems for children in the uk than elsewhere in Europe.

Goes back to lack of community and being more isolated so you spend more time online rather than with real people

ALunchbox · 30/08/2024 07:29

I grew up abroad and one thing I noticed was that there is more pressure for British children to get excellent grades all around. Where I was no one cared that much and I went to middle class populated schools.

I also noticed that over there everyone wanted to be different and didn't want to be caught dead wearing the same stuff, sporting the same haircut etc. Here we aim for uniformity more. It's something you see as well among adults - the mums at my school look all the same: they wear the same sort of stuff, have the same haircut etc. The dads all seem to have variations of the same car. Everyone goes on the same sort of holidays, the same outings, etc. The pressure to conform feels much higher.

On the continent, people seemed more content with who they are.

KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 07:32

On the continent, people seem more content with who they are.
That's something of a sweeping statement. I'm not even sure what it means!

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