To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

Would you feel better if she was crying and miserable all the time? Do you really think she doesn’t know how much her weight is causing her a problem? Of course she knows but being miserable isn’t the way to turn herself around! Alienate and humiliate her if you must but don’t kid yourself one word from you is going to help her turn her life around.

I do think that this body positivity thing is very bad for young womens health. Embracing your curves is one thing, but getting bigger and bigger whilst saying that anyone who is concerned for your health is "fat shaming" is really damaging.

And its funny how it only goes one way. I fell out with someone at my local over it, she was into the body pos thing, and I am a size 8 and she would make barbed comments about how "skinny" I am. I lost my rag one night (yes, had had wine) and said "You keep calling my skinny and laughing and saying I must be anorexic, but if I called you fat and said you must have over eating disorder then you would accuse me of fat shaming. Why is it only fat people can be body positive?" She called me a rude bitch and never spoke to me again. Win. What she didnt know was that I am/was recovering from anorexia and her words cut deep. Maybe I should have put it like that, but as I say, had wine at the time and it doesnt take much to get me tipsy these days.

She's not overweight. She's not obese. She is morbidly obese.
If you saw someone driving recklessly and then blaming the curving roads, you would say something. I don't think what you said was any different.

I think it’s a touchy issue to raise and one that I imagine she’s more conscious of than she lets on.

To be 5”2 and a size 30 is astonishing. I don’t mean that in an unkind way but from a point of concern. I am overweight myself and I yo-yo. I’m not under any delusion that it’s a healthy place to be. I think that you can be body positive but also be conscious of yourself. I don’t think your friend is the latter, or if she is she’s heavily in denial.

I think if I was you, I’d find a way to meet her by herself, be upfront and say that you’re worried you’ve upset her and apologise but express what you’ve expressed in your OP and that you mean this from a place of love. That’s if you want to go into it further.

Hope you and your pal make up soon, you sound like a good friend 💐

If she is a real friend then discussing healfh and how she is shortening her life massively by decades is not off the table and should be a regular discussion.
A fake friend wouldn't want to bother and just keep the peace. But yeah the body positivity movement is valid for some situations. Those of different disabilities etc. But choosing to be overweight and obese is not a positive thing it is a lifestyle choice.

Unless she is really lacking in intelligence I'm sure she is fully aware of how unhealthy it is and I'm sure deep down she does want to lose weight. The laughing and body positivity stuff is just a defence mechanism. I wouldn't have said anything intentionally because I'm sure they are fully aware they need to lose weight. I could see myself getting annoyed and blurting it out like you did though.

It’s a shame you’ve upset her , would’ve been better to speak privately to her .
She will be fully aware that’s she’s morbidly obese and a GP or other medical professional will comment on this too .
I wouldn’t comment on someone else’s weight and appearance, just as I don’t really appreciate someone commenting negatively on my appearance ( happy to have compliments on a clothing item or hair )
I was in a lovely independent clothes shop with a relative who is about 5’6 “ and size 18 /20 .
This shop specialised in size 16 ( which is a fairly average dress size in my opinion) and up .
She called me a skinny Minnie erm thanks 🙄 I’m 5’3 “ and size 10ish occasionally 12 in some tops and weigh about 55 kilos ..hardly skinny for gods sake

She was in holiday to enjoy herself and you made a comment that probably came across as judgemental and hurtful, even if factually true.

I'm sure you have bad habits op, is holiday the right time to confront someone about them? If you smoke or eat too little or don't sleep enough or have bad hair or whatever. I'm not sure holiday is the time to raise it.

I don’t know what Americans put in their food but I went there at age 22 and put on almost 2 stone in 9 months working in a reasonably active job 🤭

I think for me it was the poor public transport and like a lot of America it wasn’t a walkable city, which meant I was driven everywhere so outside of the school I worked at I didn’t get much physically activity in - and the lack of availability in healthy food. In my street there were lots of deliciously greasy takeaways that successfully tempted me, but it was quite far to get to the supermarket if you didn’t drive. Also there was so much food on offer everywhere via the organisation I worked with.

Has anyone read ultra processed people? It may have been mentioned in this thread but I think it’s a good read that helps go someway to explaining increasing obesity.

I can see it from both POV, I do think food industry and the way some places /countries are designed makes it more difficult to not be obese but I do think there’s ways around it which require the individual to take responsibility.

It took me a lot of effort coming back from America to start tracking calories and choosing to walk instead of the bus and then I added in the gym too which helped. I lost 2.5 stone in that first year coming back from the States and lost a stone more later on.

So glad she accepted your coffee invitation.

I think you know it wasn’t the best to say in front of everyone, this is much more of a one to one conversation to discuss her health.

There will be a lot of increased risks for her and will be exacerbated as she gets older.

I can see you genuinely do care about her and misjudged the situation because you assumed it was a safe space.

Hope it goes well tomorrow.

If you’re going to argue a heroin addict is as useful and functioning to society as an obese person, then I don’t know how to help you. It’s not the ‘potential’ to not become a functioning member of society, it’s specifically OP’s friend, who is. And if you want to argue about potential to not become functioning then you also can’t criticise the comparison to a recreational cocaine addict.

And it’s STILL not appropriate to call out across the table of a pub with other friends present on a social evening out.

Exactly, you can spot them a mile off.

And she can expand on what she disagrees with on the movement without using her friend as an example.

Thinking it was not an appropriate time or manner to bring up a concern is not the same as ‘afraid to say anything hard’. I’m not afraid to have difficult conversations, I am aware when it’s appropriate or inappropriate to have them, because I am aware of the consequences of shooting my mouth off.

OP was not driven by care and concern for her friend in that moment, she was driven by annoyance.

It doesn’t matter if it was close friends, acquaintances or strangers, the setting for a critical comment and/or discussion on a specific individual’s body and weight was unnecessary and inappropriate and held a high risk of doing more harm than good.

I would absolutely say something to her, although not in front of others. Hugely overweight, however she likes to pretend everything’s okay. It’s like any addiction, people will always make excuses for themselves because they don’t want to face the reality. My mother was very overweight, and at 70 had a heart attack, and is now in the latter stages of heart failure. I told her time again that she needed to look after herself, but because she felt nothing bad had happened, that all was okay. Until it wasn’t. She will be taken away from me too soon due to the lifestyle she chose.

1000 times this.

I am obese. I have given up dieting but I haven't given up on my health. I've made a huge effort to improve my diet, in terms of adding in more vegetables, and regularly exercising. I may lose weight, I may not.

The crux is that it's only through accepting my body as it is now that I'm able to motivate myself to eat nutrient dense food and move more. If I hate my body, why would I possibly want to look after it? If I castigate myself for being 'fat and disgusting' how could i possibly see myself as worth looking after?

The body positivity movement gets a bad rep. Its not all donuts and 'I'm so sexy'. Its about seeing yourself as of value, regardless of size and then treating yourself accordingly.

This reminds me of DH talking about the 'huge hill' we had to go up to get to the car park whilst on holiday. Elderly people with wheeled walkers were going quicker than him,up the very gentle incline. And I am not a slim person by any stretch of the imagination, my BMI is in the 40's, I am puce if I have to go up more than 3 flights of stairs in one go and a decent hill ( 1 in 4 territory ) will sometimes mean I need to stop for a breather ! But this 'huge hill' was easily achievable without stops or breathlessness for 99% of the population.
What he saw and remembered, was how difficult it was for him, not the actual reality of it, and this actually made me push him to see his GP, which is why he is still alive to this day.

I am obese. I have given up dieting but I haven't given up on my health. I've made a huge effort to improve my diet, in terms of adding in more vegetables, and regularly exercising. I may lose weight, I may not.

@PresidentBarklett I think you’re bound to lose weight if you’re eating well and exercising regularly. 💐

There are other options available. She could be generally happy, yet at the same time realize she is hurting her health, in which case she would want to do something about it. If she thinks she's happy because she lies to herself that she can be healthy while being morbidly obese, that is not real happiness. It's denial. It's no way to go through life. Misery is inevitable when you are in denial, because you have to face reality eventually. But by then the damage might be irrecoverable.
For example, I once knew somebody who was in denial about having diabetes. He ate whatever he wanted and didn't use insulin. By the end he had to have both his legs removed, had lost his eyesight and had succumbed to severe dementia. What a horrible way to die.

I personally cannot stand to see addicts do things that will ultimately end in an untimely death. It's extremely distressing to watch it happen. So I would, in private, try to get through to the friend, but if she continued to deny and it was clear there was no hope of her seeing reason, I would have to take a step back from that friendship because I could not stand to see her keep on in a death march. I do think OP should have brought it up in private.

I worked with two women who went whole hog on body positivity crap. Both of them were morbidly obese. One developed type 2 diabetes at 28. The other has been having problems with her heart and knee joints in her late 40's. Neither of them could climb a flight of stairs without stopping several times. But they absolutely buy into the myth that their weight is not a contributing factor to their overall health. Listening to them spout on their conspiracy theory shit, about how the medical profession are lying to everyone, made me want to scream.... Both completely delusional...

It is difficult. It is a clash between being confident in the body you have... and thinking there is nothing wrong with the body you have (if it is morbidly obese, then no... nothing right about it).
Both things can exist at once... so you can not feel same or disgust about your body shape.... but at the same time you can know you are obese to the level that your health is at risk.. and accept that.

So... I am not ashamed, but I know I need to change... do people who think that exist?

I agree, I think the fact she keeps bringing it up is almost asking for someone to call her out on it.

I have a similar issue with my MIL, although in her case she's thin and a rake and gets every cold going, coughs turn into pneumonia etc. She sleeps most of her days and exists on coffee & cake. Yet repeatedly goes on about how fit and healthy she is and how fast she walks compared to her friends. Delusions are strong!!

So... I am not ashamed, but I know I need to change... do people who think that exist?

That is me ! I am not ashamed of my body, I am actually very grateful for it's ability to keep going despite the abuse I have given it. I have decided to reward it for its absolutely amazing service by losing weight and getting fitter

I think if one of my friends said something like you did to me in the way that you did it I would be so hurt, embarrassed and ashamed. I think there are ways of saying what you said kindly and with the tone of concern that you express here in private with offers of help if wanted. What you did was humiliating.

I agree cutting out refined sugar and refined flour definitely helped curb the cravings. I wasn't good at sticking to it, but when I cut them out, the cravings died down.

I haven’t read the whole thread because there was so much trash masquerading as health concern. But this comment sums it up nicely.

Body positivity is about valuing your body, regardless of its current size or condition. Fat people hating themselves hasn’t made them thin, has it?