To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

She's in denial. Until she's able to internalise what her lifestyle is doing to her, she'll be defensive about anything you say. Let her be huffy with you, perhaps it will help her see reason.

I am an atheist. I don't point out my religious friends' delusions. I just nod and smile.
Occasionally my size 30 friends ask me why I deny myself cake everyday and have cut down on drinking . I am careful to say " Personally my joints hurt if I put on weight". Not saying anything about them.

I don’t think you were unreasonable. Some of the body positive sites are like cults which accept no link between obesity and Ill health. Ifs fine to be body positive if you’re marginally overweight, have stretch marks or cellulite or whatever. It sounds like your friend is in denial.

But it’s ok for them to offend you by criticising your beliefs and eating habits..?

Your religious friends delusions are not going to send them into an early grave though. Being size 30 will though.

Again, if this meant improvements in the NHS then I would happily do so. In reality though I would prefer to avoid using it altogether. Thankfully for us a few minor A&E visits and X-rays from over the years are not going to break the bank. Anyway, said DD no longer rides so it’s not an issue.

Obesity is bad for health.

Body positivity is great but there's nothing positive about putting your health at risk.

This^

I've had friends be absolutely shocked that I like vegetables (was vegetarian for years) that I like healthy food (cook all my meals from scratch) and still felt the need to tell me they should be so angry with me if I died young. I distanced myself from them because actually I'm happier and more at peace with myself now than I was when I was thinner.. certainly mentally healthier and I was only that skinny before because I was in a horrible relationship at the time and was a ball of stress. I was skinny but certainly wasn't healthy. Your friend is entitled to make her own decisions in the world, regards her health and diet, regards her opinions and beliefs. You don't need to agree with any of it op but you do need to respect her right to autonomy. And calling her out and embarrassing her in front of a group was not doing that.

But how do you think your judgement would actually help, rather than just making her feel bad about herself? Telling someone to lose weight could well be heard as “you aren’t good enough as you are”. Which she is. Body weight does not influence your value as a person.

'It's not what she said to her friend really, it's the context. The OP was watching and judging her friend throughout the holiday. She couldn't keep up, couldn't get up and down ladders, couldn't climb the hill, eats unhealthily and so on. That's what I found judgemental and condescending on top of what she said in front of the others.'

@cupcaske123

It's not judgemental, it's factual observations. How is it judgemental and condescending to make observations and to voice those observations in the OP as its information relevant to the subject.

You're taking OPs observations on her friend as an attack on yourself.

I've already answered this a few times in the thread. I don't see it as an attack on myself.

As my username suggests, I'm overweight for my height, so it's probably a touchy subject for me. I understand being concerned for your friend, I really do. Of course we worry about the people we love. However, she most likely knows she's very overweight and unfit and you bringing it up to her in front of others is not going to make her suddenly want to lose it. I think maybe you embarrassed her which I don't think was your intention at all.
Perhaps chat with her and be honest about it.

You’re right and she knows it. It’s hard to watch someone you care about damage themselves and you don’t have to endorse her delusion but I don’t think you can say any more without hurting her feelings.

So so difficult, she's obviously in denial because she can't be healthy if she's that big and struggling to walk is a problem.
I certainly could do with losing a stone or two but I'm a size 12-14 and can still do everything I want to which is massively different from being a size 30 and struggling.

She is unlikely to accept any advice however well meant though and is likely to get defensive.
It would have to come from her deciding she's ready to make changes.

I had a family member who was very overweight who sadly died in her late 40s due to weight related issues. So sad and always makes me think could I have said or done anything to help her. But I end up realising there wasn't really unless she was ready to hear it.

I wish people read the OP.
The OP didn't bring it up. Her friend bought it up and seems to bring it up all the time.

The OPs friend asked the question 'what did you mean by that' and the OP answered.

We can't walk around on eggshells and not answer questions in case someone overweight is offended by it. If she didn't want to hear it she didn't have to ask or keep bringing it up in the first place.

There’s nothing wrong with body positivity but it creates risks of missing health issues. She is clearly extremely unhealthy. Things like that then contribute to the issues the NHS faces as they’re expected to sort it.

I've been obese for a lot of my life (not currently, but for more than half of my adult life I was). It's excruciating. Whenever people talk about weight, or diets, or fitness - and women tend to talk about those things quite a bit - it's embarrassing, you feel like everyone's looking at you, and you simply can't join in the conversations about losing a few pounds, you just have to look unconcerned while they're happening, or laugh them off. Every meal you eat, every disordered bite of empty-calorie food you take, every drink, every trip to the shops, all the pictures in magazines, everything reminds you all the time that you're fat, and that's something to be ashamed of. It sounds like your friend has lived with this all her adult life, and I'd hazard a guess that the body positivity thing is helping her cope, as is the appearance of laughing about her size.

I get that you responded in the moment to what she was saying, but she must have been mortified. I don't wonder she's avoiding you now.

What helped me most was the friends who didn't say anything when I was at my heaviest and most in denial, or the ones who leapt in with congratulations about how great I was looking when I finally managed to ditch some of the weight (because those comments just reinforced how much of a failure I'd been before). It was the friends who were always there to talk about difficult things, quietly, when I was ready, who didn't force the issue, who showed me they understood by avoiding certain topics to do with weight and food/drink when in groups or changing the subject when they came up, which eventually gave me the confidence to talk to them when I was ready. You can't force things, no matter how much you think you're acting in someone's interests, or saving them from themselves.

This

It’s disheartening to see that so many associate weight with morality. People can be overweight for any number of reasons. If we all ate the exact same things and did the exact same amount of exercise everyday, we would all still have different body shapes!

For all those saying the friend brought it up - the friend sounds embarrassed of her size. OP didn’t have to agree, in fact, she didn’t have to say anything at all! She could have said nothing and brought it up with the friend later privately if she really felt doing so was helpful.

Some of the comments on this thread have been so nasty. No one is suggesting that being overweight is optimal for your health, but why are people who are overweight not allowed to be body positive? Losing weight can be very difficult for certain people (based on various factors like illnesses, hormone imbalances etc) so if they are overweight are they supposed to just feel terrible about themselves forever? Can’t they accept themselves for who they are? Slim does not necessarily equal healthy either.

Comments about being entitled to free healthcare are also ridiculous. By some posters reckoning, you shouldn’t be entitled to help from the NHS if you’re obese, or were drunk, or participating in a sport etc. No one means to crash their car, but accidents happen - should people be refused help because they shouldn’t have got into the car in the first place? Again, it seems to come back to morality and this notion of deciding what others “deserve”. These comments are ridiculous, prejudiced, sanctimonious and downright nasty.

If it was me, I'd have to have ONE serious conversation with her, or maybe write her a letter. My conscience wouldn't let me ignore it.

Let her know you care about her, and will help her however she needs. Explain the risks of being overweight. Even if she's okay now, it has a hefty impact as you age.

Perhaps she knows this. Perhaps it's all bravado. But if you let her know you're there for her, she then has choices.

After that, leave her to it.

You can’t help but notice though in that type of holiday setting. It wasn’t Op was watching and trying to catch friend out just noticing and perhaps they had to adapt trip eg waiting for friend to catch up, taxi not walking.

You are being cruel to your friend.

But I agree body positivity has given people a get out card for being overweight and unhealthy.

I say that as currently overweight myself.

Showing the world your flab is a personal choice but people judge and I'm still overweight.

did you even read my post? That is....exactly what I said?

OP's friend has co-opted the 'good' elements of the body positivity movement to justify her weight, but is misinterpreting or not understanding some key elements of it, like what 'self-care' means.

I would never speak to you again if you treated me like that in front of a group. Her weight is absolutely none of your flipping business. She deserves an apology.

She knows she's fat. She knows it's an issue. She knows why she found the hill hard work. She might not say it aloud but she's knows ffs.

Quoting Goody2Shoes:

"Yes, it will be the elephant in the room but there's no realistic way round that right now."

Laughing at this presumably unintended? quip of the day.