To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

Side stepping the weight issue for a moment, the impact of SM on people’s identities and core beliefs is really worrying.

We are a social species and we form our beliefs about the world through consensus. 10 years ago I had some measure of influence on family and friends but that has diminished because they now have hundreds of other voices on a daily basis reinforcing some opinion or belief. I catch myself at it sometimes, silently dismissing a dissenting voice as “they don’t understand” or suggesting “you should really listen to xxx”

@treesandflowers95 You might have had a chance at getting through to her a decade ago but how do you compete with a whole internet army of zealots? It’s not really any different to losing someone to Q-anon or Covid conspiracy theorists.

I notice these awkward moments more and more, where someone is confidently expressing a view that’s falling flat, but everyone ignores it or changes the subject because the alternative seems to be losing the relationship.

I don’t know how you can look at your friend killing herself in front of your eyes and not say something. Back in the 90s my friend was disappearing in front of us, deep in an anorexia delusion and this is so similar. But back then she didn’t have thousands of “friends” cheering her on. I’ve absolutely no useful advice for you, I wish I had

I never cease to be surprised by the low comprehension skills of some posters. It’s hard to understand how you took that from my post.

To use your drinking an analogy. My post is talking about a situation where someone who downs three bottles of wine every day is chatting to you about how healthy this is and expecting you to nod along in agreement. If you think refusing to nod along makes someone ‘obnoxious’ then god help your extreme people pleasing personality

Seems you're in need of a friend to be honest with you about your attitude.

Likewise.

I'd enjoy her company as best you can while she's still around, OP.

As massive as she is, I wouldn't expect her to reach even middle age.

But it she's in huge denial, which it sounds like she is, then she doesn't know the deal. And as OP has pointed, it sounds like J bangs on about it all the time. There's only so many times you can change the subject.

OP good friends are honest and good friends don't lie. So if you agree with her you'd effectively be lying to her.

A size 30 is huge, and it doesn't seem like you're all that old. I would let her be annoyed, she'll get over it. But if she keeps bringing it up, tell her that you're worried about her size and you don't agree on her stance on it and perhaps it's best not to talk about it anymore and let her crack on. She's digging herself an early grave and no matter what you say, she won't change. To be size 30 with no medical reason behind it, she will have an eating disorder. She needs to go to counselling and find the root cause of it. In an indirect way it can be a form of self harm.

She needs professionals to help her, not her friends to indulge in her behaviour, and good on you for not doing that.

Why would the OP be embarrassed?

My sil is very slim but some time back a conversation was held around body description and she flew off the handle about being overweight and unhealthy weight…. Saying all sizes are perfect/beautiful etc. I tried to say that there is nothing aesthetically wrong with overweight but to be so overweight it’s damaging your health is no good for anyone, of course people living with obesity shouldn’t be bullied but they should be helped to see it’s no good for them and assisted to get to a healthier weight. But she’s wouldn’t have it, we just need to tell them their weight is perfect for them and therefore my opinion is discrimination. Like a pp said what if it was drugs, should we tell them it’s absolutely their choice and they are perfect as they are? Or assist them to get some help?

I agree. If people dont want opinions on their excessive and unhealthy lifestyle habits/choices then why bring it up constantly and expect others to agree with them?

If you want to drink heavily or only eat unhealthy food or smoke 50 a day- thats entirely your choice and its completely up to you but dont then get angry if you keep telling people its a good thing and they dont nod along or agree with you!

Fatness is not the same as unfitness. Shame you targeted her body not her body's ability to do things.

I take it you regard yourself in the same light being as you started our exchange by insulting me.

Yes, I do tend to reply to people in the same tone they speak to me in. I speak with respect to those who speak to be with respect. I speak bluntly to those are blunt with me. I speak rudely to those are rude to me

They expose their hypocrisy if they object to this.

Why is everyone saying the OP shouldn't have brought it up? The friend is the one who keeps harping on about it and she asked the OP 'what she meant.'

If she didn't want the answer she shouldn't have asked.

I think this was very eloquently put.

For me body positivity is that even though I am overweight I still deserve to be treated as a person like everyone else.

I deserve to be able to buy nice clothes that fit, I can go places and 'take up space' I don't need to hide away in the shadows wearing a sack

If she didn't want you to publicly, or otherwise, share your opinion, she shouldn't have shared hers in a public setting. Conversations work both ways.

I didn't insult you. I wasn't rude to you. If you can't handle differing opinions, perhaps sharing them is not for you.

You absolutely shouldn't have said that in front of others. No ifs or buts, you should have waited and brought it up one to one.

The body positivity thing will be helping her to cope and feel confident with who she is now.
I am a big believer of allowing people to lose weight as and when they are ready to.

But I think that's just it: the whole body positivity movement is about encouraging people to 'love the skin they're in' even if they are morbidly obese.
It's telling people that it's OK to be this size and that they shouldn't feel the need to lose weight.

The friend couldn’t get up a normal hill with her friends, I guess that’s unfit🙄

It does sound as if this friend is in denial, I would expect the friendship to gradually fizzle out because she's unable to do the same things as you so there's a lack of compatibility 🤷🏻‍♀️

I love debate. I do have, however, little patience for people who don’t bother to read properly yet feel free to tell people their views are obnoxious.

YWBU.

Time and place, and all that.

But I think that's just it: the whole body positivity movement is about encouraging people to 'love the skin they're in' even if they are morbidly obese.

So you’d prefer people to encourage morbidly obese people to hate themselves? Mental health is also important

I do think you are in the wrong for the forum you used to discuss this with her. Don’t think you needed to pull her up on it at dinner, that’s obviously going to humiliate her more, as it’s clearly as sore subject for her. I don’t disagree with your point that she seems in denial about how healthy she is, but I would have said something privately

But she didn’t target her body at all Op says she said it with reference to physical limitations she noticed eg friend struggling with slight incline, short walk etc. That’s nothing like saying you looked huge in your swim suit.