I'm only quoting your post because it fits and not because I'm directing my reply at you personally.
I've followed this thread with interest and dismay.
The situation women are now facing in Afghaniistan is unimaginable and I agree that, sadly, there is little that can realistically be done to challenge and change it for all the reasons given.
There have been many segues and discussions of other religions and women's rights in general.
I'm not a religious person and I don't have a faith. To my mind, faith is one thing and it brings many people a lot of comfort during difficult times. However, religion is a man made construct that has always been about control. And, invariably, it is 'man' made; men made the rules and men ennforce the rules. And many of those rules impact negatively on women and have done so across the centuries.
I know many Muslims, male and female. The men are exactly what anyone would consider to he kind, loving, reasonable and supportive men. The women who wear the hiijab, burkhas etc are strong, intelligent, witty women who do so by choice and would defend their right to do so. Islam, at its heart, is a peaceful faith. So this is not about Islam but women's rights in general.
There have been discussions on whether similar could happen here and what would happen if 'sharia law' were 'democratically' enforced here and whether it could happen here. Someone explained how it could happen. Before the GE, I read a thread about a woman who had to vote the way her husband told her to. So, in some homes, women's votes are already controlled.
The bottom line for me is that we still only have an illusion of equality.
Women only enjoy equality and women's rights because, and as far as, men allow us to. And we will only ever enjoy them for as long as men allow us to. I'm not referring to individual men in our lives who champion and support us (although there are many, many threads on MN that show how many women are not permitted equality and freedoms in their own lives by the men in their lives) but as a society.
People have already referred to anti abortion laws in the US. The fact that women, in some states, no longer have bodily autonomy and freedom of choice. None of those laws are about protecting unborn babies; they are about controlling women.
There are countries across the world where women can be imprisoned if they suffer a miscarriage.
So many think these atrocities couldn't happen in the 'civilised West' and yet the recent Tickle vs Giggle case in Australia has effectively removed the right of women to organise themselves and meet without men.
Women's sport has been impacted by allowing males to compete in the female categories if those men have wanted to.
In this country there have been attacks on women (by men) who have tried to meet away from men to discuss the protection of women's rights and rights as simple and obvious as the right of women to request a same sex HCPs have been diminished.
One of the markers of a civilised society is single sex toilets. I read on here a few years ago, about a film made in India about women fighting for the right to have female toilets in a rural farming community. This is because women in rural communities have/had to organise themselves to go to the toilet in a field in groups and at certain times of day only to avoid being raped.
Single sex toilets are a marker of a civilised society because they allow women the freedom to be independent without a chaperone. And why do we need a chaperone? And yet, look how quick we have been in the UK (and other countries), whilst in some countries women are fighting for the right to have single sex toilets, to fall over ourselves to abandon and dismantle that right in the name of kindness and equality. and why? Because it's what some men want.
We all know rape is still under reported and/because conviction rates are incredibly low. And a combination of the prevalence of rape myths and concern for the impact a conviction will have on a man's future allows this to happen.
Etc etc etc.
Everytime, the wants of men are put above the needs and rights of women, women's rights are dismantled just a little bit more, our collective voice becomes quieter and the security of our future rights are compromised. It's a sliding scale, the thin end of the wedge, the tip of the iceberg.
Every week, there are reports in the news of women who have been killed by men who sought to control them and many more that don't even make the news because it is so commonplace to not even be 'news' now.
And there are many women who support it because, whilst men control the narrative, our only option is to acquiesce or we lose our jobs, we face threats of/actual violence, including sexual violence, we face risk to our families, or are at risk of the police turning up to question us about 'wrong think' or actual imprisonment. Or death.
Whether the vehicle is religion, or ideology, or a desire to be kind, or just plain old fear, all that needs to happen for women's rights to be eroded is for men to make that choice. People who speak up against the oppression of women; the removal of women's rights are dismissed and villified with accusations of 'phobia', asked why were not being kind, or blamed - we are framed as the problem and controlled, silenced and punished.
This is not about the men we know individually, the men we love, have raised, trust and who love us in return. We've all seen the photos of women in Iran in the 1970s compared with today. There is no reason why these oppressions couldn't happen anywhere if enough men want it.
Because I've followed this thread with interest and dismay.
The situation women are now facing in Afghaniistan is unimaginable and I agree that, sadly, there is little that can realistically be done to challenge and change it for all the reasons given.
There have been many segues and discussions of other religions and women's rights in general.
I'm not a religious person and ii don't have a faith. To my mind, faith is one thing and it brings many people a lot of comfort during difficult times. However, religion is a man made construct that has always been about control. And, invariably, it is 'man' made; men made the rules and men ennforce the rules. And many of those rules impact negatively on women and have done so across the centuries.
I know many Muslims, male and female. The men are exactly what anyone would consider to he kind, loving, reasonable and supportive men. The women who wear the hiijab, burkhas etc are strong, intelligent, witty women who do so by choice and would defend their right to do so. Islam, at its heart, is a peaceful faith. So this is not about Islam but women's rights in general.
There have been discussions on whether similar could happen here and what would happen if 'sharia law' were 'democratically' enforced here and whether it could happen here. Someone explained how it could happen. Before the GE, I read a thread about a woman who had to vote the way her husband told her to. So, in some homes, women's votes are already controlled.
The bottom line for me is that we still only have an illusion of equality.
Women only enjoy equality and women's rights because, and as far as, men allow us to. And we will only ever enjoy them for as long as men allow us to. I'm not referring to individual men in our lives who champion and support us (although there are many, many threads on MN that show how many women are not permitted equality and freedoms in their own lives by the men in their lives) but as a society.
People have already referred to anti abortion laws in the US. The fact that women, in some states, no longer have bodily autonomy and freedom of choice. None of those laws are about protecting unborn babies; they are about controlling women.
There are countries across the world where women can be imprisoned if they suffer a miscarriage.
So many think these atrocities couldn't happen in the 'civilised West' and yet the recent Tickle vs Giggle case in Australia has effectively removed the right of women to organise themselves and meet without men.
Women's sport has been impacted by allowing males to compete in the female categories if those men have wanted to.
In this country there have been attacks on women (by men) who have tried to meet away from men to discuss the protection of women's rights and rights as simple and obvious as the right of women to request a same sex HCPs have been diminished.
One of the markers of a civilised society is single sex toilets. I read on here a few years ago, about a film made in India about women fighting for the right to have female toilets. This is because women in rural communities have/had to organise themselves to go to the toilet in a field in groups to avoid being raped.
Single sex toilets are a marker of a civilised society because they allow women the freedom to be independent without a chaperone. And why do we need a chaperone? And yet, look how quick we have been in the UK (and other countries), whilst in some countries women are fighting for the right to have single sex toilets, to fall over ourselves to abandon and dismantle that right in the name of kindness and equality. and why? Because it's what some men want.
We all know rape is still under reported and /because conviction rates are incredibly low. And a combination of the prevalence of rape myths and concern for the impact a conviction will have on a man's future allows this to happen.
Etc etc etc.
Everytime, the wants of men are put above the needs and rights of women, women's rights are dismantled just a little bit more, our colective voice becomes quieter, the security of our future rights are compromised.
Every week, there are reports in the news of women who have been killed by men who sought to control them and many more that don't even make the news because it is so commonplace to not even be 'news' now.
And there are many women who support it because, whilst men control the narrative, our only option is to acquiesce or we lose our jobs, we face threats of/actual violence, including sexual violence, we face risk to our families, or are at risk of the police turning up to question us about 'wrong think' or actual imprisonment. Or death.
Whether the vehicle is religion, or ideology, or a desire to be kind, or just plain old fear, all that needs to happen for women's rights to be eroded is for men to make that choice. People who speak up against the oppression of women; the removal of women's rights are dismissed and villoified with accusations of 'phobia', accusations of not being kind, or blamed - we are framed as the problem and controlled, silenced and punished.
This is not about the men we know individually, the men we love, have raised, trust and who love us in return. We've all seen the photos of women in Iran in the 1970s compared with today. There is no reason why these oppressions couldn't happen anywhere if enough men wanted it.