To be shocked this isn't getting more coverage?

[Sugarcoldturkey]

Women in Afghanistan are now forbidden from speaking when not inside their homes. A simple "hello" to someone in a shop is now against the law. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/aug/26/taliban-bar-on-afghan-women-speaking-in-public-un-afghanistan

AIBU to think this is some of the most horrific news I've heard in months? I can't wrap my head around it and I can't help thinking - activists/newspapers/politicians are loud when campaigning about the gender pay gap or the state of child care or a woman's rights to her own body but somehow on this topic no one wants to criticise too often or too loudly.

Is it because religion is mixed in? Or guilt over the war? Or do politicians in particular only care about women's rights when it's a vote-winner in their constituency? Or is it just that it's so terrible and we all feel so powerless to prevent it that we just prefer to ignore the situation?

I'm feeling v v shaken.

You'd think that men would find the implication that they couldn't countrol themselves insulting, wouldn't you, but I guess not.

Actually be honest I am just as alarmed about the erosion of womens rights in parts of the US.

Here you go, newtlover; it's in the US not the UK and concerns flags rather than an actual parade, but an interesting article all the same - and you'll probably love the source:

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

Just one thing:
The similarities between the religions are there because the guy who made up Islam based his religion on Judaism, and to a certain degree the Christian societies in the ME area, to foster the same sense of loyalty between the brethren so they would fight for the same cause.

The whole point of this religion was not peace as such.
No religion in this area, bar perhaps the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and other similar hippies, were based on wishes for peace or love of your fellow human.

@angeldelite how boring. Another poster implying anyone who steps out of line on the ‘allowed’ comments must EDL/ a racist etc. I’m actually Irish so from a population who were oppressed by the British and I’m a young woman with a daughter hence finding the idea of a Muslim majority horrifying - I would hate my daughter to be oppressed like so many women in Muslim majority countries. It’s an awful life for women and it’s a valid concern.

Don't forget the thousands and thousands still arriving.....

Still nowhere close to the numbers needed to make Britain’s adult voting age population 50% Muslim in 25 years. Not even close.

Your numbers are miles off.

And are you part of the GB news propaganda who stirs up hatred and Islamophobia. Where is your factual evidence that the UK will become Muslim majority? Just ridiculous. Were you 'protesting' on the streets of the UK a few weeks ago by any chance?

Many religions it seems have some kind of micro aggression against women of some sort ie 'purifying' baths suggesting that women and periods are somehow unclean etc. I think Hinduism also has something similar as does Islam as there are rituals after menstruation. The bottom line is that all this suggests that women are inferior and dirty when they menstruate. All these ridiculous laws and rituals are made up by men who want women to be 'kept in their place'.

But in relation to the OP's initial question- yes it's completely shocking that the new laws in Afghanistan are not getting more news coverage.

Exactly right. There are many extreme regimes that oppress a lot of people, usually the majority of those oppressed are women or gay people, but not always. And it would seem a lot of these regimes or movements can coincide with religion, most, but not all. Take incels for example.

We should always as a society as a whole recognise and accept people are entitled to their own views, and practices (religious or not) and they absolutely should not be persecuted for those, as long as they do not lean towards extremism. It’s also helpful to remember that not everyone who follows a certain religion, whatever that is, wishes for mass murder, oppression or whatever else and does not follow or agree with the extremisms of any lifestyle. Examples could be gay conversion therapy, which is abhorrent, oppression of women and girls, sharia law, outlawing abortion, cults, FGM (which is not advocated by any one religion and practiced by those of many religions, if any at all) and the list goes on and on.

Wherever any regime or religion exists, there will be those there willing to exploit it to their own extreme means and oppressing multiple people in the process.

It is not helpful to label anyone who raises legitimate questions and concerns as ‘racist’ or ‘GB News watchers’ (whatever that means) or ‘part of the recent riots’ to suggest anyone with concerns over any kind of extremism is somehow leaning one way is not right, unless you can prove so. Of course racists, or whatever, must not be allowed to flourish.

There must be space to allow legitimate concerns over extremism to be raised, whatever that extremism is, without people being fearful of repercussion or being shot down. Extremism is growing, in every sector of what or where people identify and this is the problem. Left or right, man or woman or otherwise, extremism is dangerous and poses a threat to everyone’s way of life. The sooner we realise this, and do not automatically jump to ‘you this; you bad. You this; you good’ the better our society as a whole can be. I feel this is a long way off. There is god and bad in everything, no matter how you present.

I commend those who at least got to the bottom of my post!

If if were likely to happen in my lifetime then no I wouldn't, but I've previously questioned whether democracy is the best form of governance and had my arse handed to me so I assumed, given the very strong defence of democracy, that there was widespread support for it.

But, it appears that support drops off rapidly when the outcome isn't well liked.

Christianity is currently the largest and most influential religion in the world, with a history of extreme and ongoing persecution, oppression, and abuse towards women.

Can I ask why you’re not concerned about the influence of Christianity but are about the influence of Islam? Is it because you support Christianity so are OK with the abuses carried out in it's name?

In any case, it’s not naive in the slightest; it’s just sensible not to be worried about something that isn't going to happen in the UK.

Islam isn't predicted to become the largest religion globally until towards the end of the century, and even then, it won’t be a majority. In the UK, it’s very unlikely to ever become the majority religion—certainly not within anyone on this forum’s lifetime.

As I said, society and cultures aren't static, a hundred or so years ago many people where disgusted by the idea of women having the vote or people being openly gay but it happened anyway. If Islam does go on to become a world conquering religion in 100 years time then there's not a great deal you'll be able to do to stop it.

Unless you're advocating for the persecution of Muslims in western countries to prevent it spreading further, of course?

Where would you rather be?

I know where I'd choose for my dd and me, without doubt.

Not miles off. Years off.

There is a subtle difference.

So many people bring sucked into division by so many lies.🤦‍♀️

I'm glad misinformation and racist lies are being reported and deleted.

‘Raising awareness’ will do absolutely nothing bar make those discussing it feel like they’re taking some kind of action. Unfortunately sometimes there is no answer - or not one that’s practical or desirable. This is one of those cases.

The reality is the West spent a very long time, and a lot of money, training and equipping an army who abandoned their posts. The west can’t occupy and babysit Afghanistan forever, so this was inevitable sadly.

I dislike the knee jerk response that any discussion of Islam and its impact on society is racist - I don’t want to live in a country where disapproval or questioning of a religion is a crime or instantly silenced (like in Afghanistan!). I think discussing Islam and the impact it has in wider society is absolutely valid, as is discussing any other religion.

We can’t escape the fact that while other religions have had a renaissance and generally developed into liberal countries with human rights, virtually every predominantly Muslim country has not achieved this - in fact off the top of my head I can’t think of a single Muslim country that tolerates homosexuality (let alone allows gay marriage), or grants women equal rights to men. Therefore there’s no reason to believe a potential Muslim majority UK would be any different.

Saying ‘oh it won’t happen in our lifetime’ is really glib. I have a daughter (and a son), I care about them, I care about their theoretical future children. Letting the country potentially slide into somewhere with no rights for women/gay people/religious minorities/children ‘because I’ll be dead so I’ll be okay’ is awful.

I read the thread you started earlier in the week @Sugarcoldturkey. Thank you for starting another one.

I donated to Rushkhana’s Foundation on Monday (at a poster on that thread’s suggestion) and today set up a SO for The Linda Norgrove Foundation. Incidentally what a fascinating life Linda Norgrove led before she was killed during an unsuccessful rescue attempt after being kidnapped in 2010.

What an amazing woman.

This is such an informative thread. Apologies I haven’t yet read all of it (I will do though) but I wanted to post this screenshot of (painless) donation info at the bottom of The Linda Norgrove Foundation website.

Er I don't "support" Christianity, I am a Christian so of course I care more about Christians being persecuted than other religions (although am concerned about Jews being persecuted which is also happening, not so much in the ME as they have been wiped out apart from Israel). I'm not sure who you think Christians have abused or who they're persecuting your whole post is abit muddled.

Ok, but is it racist to be concerned that the Taliban ideology (that they claim is the one true interpretation of Islam) and others like it might spread?

It didn't spread in the 80s and 90s. I am no more concerned about it impacting me now than I was then. Taliban horror is being inflicted on Afgan women, not us. We can't fix it, I don't think anyone can. But there are things we can do.

Amplify their voices when we get to hear them.

Don't use their suffering to promote racism or Islamophobia. Most Afgan women are Muslim, whether you like it or not. All of them are foreign.

Do what you can to help the Afgan women who made it to the UK. They will help their sisters and mothers back home.

Stop amplifying racist, Islamophobic shite and lies. Brave women have escaped the Taliban, Isis, Iran they deserve so much more than to fear for their lives, their children's lives and thrir livelihoods in the UK as many have done recently.

If you are concerned about women and want to act locally, we have a huge problem with femicide, rape culture and DV. Right here in the UK individual women are suffering the same restrictions under threat of death from their partner. You can help these women and it will benefit everyone.

Saying Muslims are taking over the country is racist. I don’t know who reported the comment but it was deleted for being racist.

If you don’t like Muslims being in the UK, you are free to move somewhere else.

😂

thank you for this voice of sanity
this thread began with OP's concern for the women and girls of Afghanistan and asking what we can do to help them.
many of the more recent posts seem to come from people who have never spoken to the many educated and articulate women in this country and elsewhere who are Muslims AND advocates for women's rights. As a former colleague of mine said, 'it's never about the religion, its about the culture and the men who will distort any religion to get power'
On another thread, a poster said that Islam mandates education for men And women, both.
It's not Islam we need to fear, its men.

To the person who said we can't babysit them forever.

Actually the soldiers just got up and left all their weapons/cars/tanks to the Taliban basically

My in-laws are Afghan, so are my children (1/2) it hurts me that my husband's cousins in Afghanistan have had their education cut short.
His auntie has a job but doesn't get paid for months at a time and has had a pay cut that's equivalent to £45 a month.
Majority of the soldiers in the Taliban grew up in the west.

In this case it's also an oppressive regime which is brutal and led by the dangerous belief system of the Taliban

Just switching to men doesn't help identify the problem

While all religions have been distorted to some degree to control the masses, why has the distortion of Islam lead to human rights abuses and extreme oppression of women in every country where it is the majority religion? I can’t think of a similar theocracy under any other religion?

Spanish Inquisition?
The Crucible?
Magdalen laundries?
I could go on